X-Com had it easy. I've been trying to think of ways to limit party size in a turn-based tactics game, preferably one that isn't obviously arbitrary, "because that's how the game works" sort of rule. In X-Com, your troop transport ships could only carry so many units, so you had a good, clear reason why you couldn't swarm the aliens with 20+ soldiers (and endure the long, drawn out battle that would follow). When your game is set in a ruined city, and your squad is moving about on foot, justifying such restrictions to the player gets trickier. Simply deciding that max party size is 6, or 8, or whatever is bad for immersion as it presents the player with an obviously artificial "rule" and leaves them to wonder why. Designing the UI so that the max number of units is all that will fit makes things a little better by providing a semblence of justification, but just barely. Both options also remove the ability to increase max party size as the player progresses, which is an option I'd like to leave open. My next option would be to have a "leadership" stat, and party size is based off the unit with the highest leadership. It's still an artificial cap, but it's one with an in-game explanation which makes it a bit better immersion-wise. One potential problem would be how to handle the "leader" dying - what if the next highest leadership isn't enough to command the remaining survivors? The ideal solution would be an environmental based one, similar to X-Com's troop transports. Maybe an item that each unit needs to be able to venture out into the city (setting is zombie apocalypse with a necromantic cult accent). What suggestions do you folks have? What have you liked/disliked in other games that have dealt with this issue? Am I overstating the loss of immersion when dealing with "artificial" caps?

Personally, I don't think undefined limits hurt immersion. The majority of games I've played didn't state reasons for limiting the party size, and I've never found myself questioning it. Fallout Tactics and Silent Storm, for two examples. There were around six slots, so I understood I could control up to six troops. I didn't really care why.

We sort of need to know what position your player is in to come up with reasonable excuses. Does the player control the entire human population? The entire army? A division? A squad? In X-Com, it was a division. In Fallout tactics, it was a squad.

If you want off the wall ideas, I would probably go with something like anti-radiation patches, or O2 filters that are needed in the combat zone. The supplies are so limited, you have to yank them off of the dead for someone else.

The players position is that of a small group of survivors, operating from a stronghold in a city overrun with the undead. At first party size will be limited by the total number of survivors, but as the player finds more survivors I don't want them to be able to launch a full assault. The tedium of turn-based combat with too many units aside, such an action would be almost certain suicide.

Quote:Am I overstating the loss of immersion when dealing with "artificial" caps?

I'd say yes. Limited party size is something that's become so ingrained in every RPG fan's mind that most of us probably don't even question it anymore. It would be like a platformer fan playing Mario 7543 and shouting "What?! No one can jump that high!" It's just an accepted genre convention by now.

If you need to include something, I'd make it subtle. If you have the game start stuttering excuses at the player for why it's limiting the party size, it might actually backfire, and cause them to start thinking about how it's awkward and unrealistic when before they wouldn't have even noticed. I would go with something short and hand-wavey, like:

Bob: "Let's go!"
Jim: "Wait! Someone should stay here and protect the base!"
Bob: "You're right..."
(transition to character select screen)

Or, if you like X-Com's system, then translate that into your zombie world. Give them an armored van, or six motorcycles, or an anti-zombie warding spell that only covers six people. You could make most of the missions require them getting out of the van or whatever, to go into buildings and sewers.

Personally, I would just use the "protect the base" excuse, and have it keep scaling up as the game progresses. At first, when you're only leaving 2 people behind, the base is pretty secret. Later, when you're leaving 40 people behind, the place is surrounded by zombies and everyone at the base is constantly running around shooting and securing the perimeter.

I'd say makeshiftwings offerings fit the bill well if you still want to fix that possible hole - but I have a couple of other ideas to throw into the mix as well.

Food - if your survivors are going on expeditions lasting more than a couple of days, then let them only take food for the first couple, and rely on finding food. That way, you can let the player take as many people as they want - but if they take too many, they will end up with half of their party starving to death, as you only provided enough food in the area for 6 people. If oyu have a few hints about sensible party size ingame, people will probably start to catch on. Then, you could give people flexibility about what they carry on setting out, and maybe they could manage enough tinned food to support seven folk through the mission, but then they would have to skimp on ammo, and potentially be at risk of running out. Tha way, there is no arbitrary limit, but the player will soon find a sensible limit themselves.

Limited number of anti-zombie-disease vaccines. It would be dangerous taking an unvaccinated person out into the city, so only those who you have vacinated are allowed out of the stronghold, for their own safety. This would of course prevent you from using the game mechanic of your party memebers becoming zombies though...

Or, have some sort of more-people ==> more-people-smell ==> more zombies lore, so it is policy of stronghold leaders to leave the stronghold in groups of no more than 6.

Quote:Original post by makeshiftwings

Quote:Am I overstating the loss of immersion when dealing with "artificial" caps?

I'd say yes. Limited party size is something that's become so ingrained in every RPG fan's mind that most of us probably don't even question it anymore. It would be like a platformer fan playing Mario 7543 and shouting "What?! No one can jump that high!" It's just an accepted genre convention by now.

This is a very good point, thank you. While I don't want to blindly reuse genre conventions, there's nothing wrong with choosing the ones that would improve gameplay, as long as I'm clear on why I'm using them.

Quote:Original post by Kest
If you want off the wall ideas, I would probably go with something like anti-radiation patches, or O2 filters that are needed in the combat zone. The supplies are so limited, you have to yank them off of the dead for someone else.

I actually had a similar idea, have something in the environment be dangerous enough that people couldn't leave the base without some sort of protective equipment that is in short supply.

That said, you folks are making sense. I knew I needed the party cap, but I'm not going to worry as much about explaining to the player why.