On difficulty and learning-curves

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21 comments, last by Lothia 15 years, 9 months ago
Quote:Original post by Madvillainy
Do you remember how incredibly nerve-wreckingly difficult the Megaman games for NES were? Do you remember how many times you had to replay that first stage of Super Ghost N Ghouls before you got a hang of it?
I always found MM quite easy, unless on the last few levels. I am not quite sure how much times I've completed G&G's 1st level but I can probably count this on one hand.

It seems there's alot of subjectivity.
Quote:Original post by Madvillainy
- Are games easier today than they used to be? If so, is this for better or worse?
I agree they're easier as other posters pointed out, but I believe this isn't better, nor worse. The game medium is changed. There's still a game to spend some time which needs to be difficult, there's another kind of game, usually telling a nice story which - I believe - it would be better completed in a single blow.

For example, I believe that Prince Of Persia: Sands of Time would have been much more immersive if they hadn't to trick on the death issue. This is partially resolved in Pray, but still felt a bit of a cheap trick to me.
I felt Warrior Within much more combat oriented so that needed to be hard (actaually it was too hard for me).
Quote:Original post by Madvillainy
- How does the concept of learning curve relate to difficulty and what are your thoughts on these concepts?
I'd say that the "current" point on the curve is the difficulty. The difference between the designed difficulty and the actual skill is the perceived difficulty, which we want to take under control.
How?
Why adaptive difficulty still hasn't taken much success?
In other terms: why adjusting the "perceived difficulty" isn't widespread and common practice?

In my opinion, because that's essentially hard to turn in numbers. Suppose some metric, based on health for example(note1) tells you the player needs help. How do you implement this? Spawning health packs is just lame. If the player has some sort of regen, cheating a bit on the rand could work, but that will be just a cheat and may actually become an exploit.

Even worse: suppose you give the player some rockets and quad damage. Immediatly after death the player walks in the boss room with a double rocket stock and a quad. The boss difficulty is now screwed.

Summing up: I think adaptive difficulty done right to be rather hard to implement nicely but hard to think at as well.

note1: the Halo approach is wonderful in this specific example. Essentially infinite, rechargable health - I still wonder where Master Chied keeps its batteries/reactors to power a so effective shield. I admit this is maybe a too simple example.
Quote:Original post by Madvillainy
- Finally, is there any difficult game that has a special place in your heart? ( Just curious... ;D )
Too many from the oldskool days. I'd have to think for quite some time.
In the "recent" years I liked Max Payne 1 (still have to play the 2) and Pray.
I had great hopes for STALKER but looks like I cannot get my hands on a PC which doesn't bug on it. :-(

Offtopic: does somebody know more on this X-ray engine?

Previously "Krohm"

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Quote:Original post by Madvillainy
- Finally, is there any difficult game that has a special place in your heart? ( Just curious... ;D )


Over G Fighters- On Expert
Nothing like face-hurting realism to make yourself feel superior to those damn Ace Combat kids.

Command & Conquer- the Original
1 Commando+unarmed helicopter vs sprawling base? Awesome.

Master of Orion 2 -On Hard
Can't waste a single turn...

Halo 3- Multiplayer Matchmaking
Those 49/49 Team Slayer games where defeat is one mistake away.

Mechwarrior 4(and all sequels)- on Hard+
Shaving off all the armor on your arms so you can fit an extra ton of ammo for your torso's LBX 20? That's good stuff.

-Mark the Artist

Digital Art and Technical Design
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Quote:Original post by Madvillainy
Quote:
There are some games that are rewarding because they are difficult. Guitar Hero for example. Many people really find these games a challenge and feel like it is an accomplishment to beat a particularly hard song.


I HATE Guitar Hero. Suddenly "gaming" is something for college frat parties and couples dinners where people who have never touched a console control exclaim: "Wow, I never knew video games could be this fun!"
This is so utterly ridiculous when there are so many other music games that are way better and dont scam you buy having you buy a piece of junk controller that you wont use for anything else: Gitarro Man and Oendan come to mind.


I guess I disagree with you on a few counts. The top RTS players can give over 100 commands per minute, which is very impressive that's almost 1.5 a second. So actually the difficulty levels are close to being accurate and all RTS games I always enjoyed (The AoE games mainly) the enemy always had to scout for you before they could attack.

I don't understand what you have against Guitar Hero, did you want gaming to just be for nerds and not become a social activity which they were designed for? Being a college student now and having been playing games for over 13 years I think you are flawed in your comment because most "college gamers" have been playing games for at least 6 years, I know almost know "new" gamers starting from GH other then a few girls. The game is a rip off you could say but also innovation it brings more interaction and can add more fun. If you don't see that I think you should seriously think if you can see a game from a profitable perspective where innovation and making it so college frat parties and couples dinners where people who have never touched a console control exclaim: "Wow, I never knew video games could be this fun!" is what you want and not a bad thing.

On topic I think a great game was God of War after beating the whole game and playing on Godly it was very difficult for me.

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