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Tannis

General Questions about Massive Multiplayer Gaming

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Hello I know my topic name was a little vague but here are the questions I am part of a small team of amateur game makers we don't have much experience but we want to enter the industry and blah blah blah Are main interest's as a group is Massive Multi player games such as MMORPGS or games you can play with your friends over a network through match making and parties such as Multiplayer FPS My questions are Languages to use in these type of games does it remain c++ as a industry standard? The Engine would it be better to just create a engine from scratch to suit our needs for the game or purchase/download one and mod it<- if that's possible Does any one know of any tutorial or online books articles and so on explaining the general concepts of Online games Obviously as newbies in the industry we don't plan on being able to make a MMO right off the bat I would simply like to collect as much information on the topic as I can so we may start learning more about what is in the realm of possibilities for are game ideas. Any help at all you could offer would be wonderful

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Lets pretend for a moment that your into mountain climbing, but your just starting and you decide to go for the mount Everest first.

This is what you guys are doing, you probably shouldn't even be trying an online game at first, network debugging can be really hard.

I know you will dislike my post and ignore it, but thrust me when I say you should learn to walk before you try to fly, otherwise you will go nowhere fast.

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Quote:
Original post by Tannis

Languages to use in these type of games does it remain c++ as a industry standard?


What industry standard is will be mostly irrelevant, unless you also have industry budget (AAA titles seem to be $30-80 million these days).

In indie scene, the successful projects seem to be devoid of much C++ use, seemingly going completely the other way, such as Python, PHP or Flash.

Quote:
The Engine would it be better to just create a engine from scratch to suit our needs for the game or purchase/download one and mod it<- if that's possible


Forum FAQ has several cheap/free ones.

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Original post by Kern_d
Lets pretend for a moment that your into mountain climbing, but your just starting and you decide to go for the mount Everest first.

This is what you guys are doing, you probably shouldn't even be trying an online game at first, network debugging can be really hard.

I know you will dislike my post and ignore it, but thrust me when I say you should learn to walk before you try to fly, otherwise you will go nowhere fast.


No I understand your statement it is a true and very valid one I don't plan to make a MMO or even attempt to in the near future because that's a unrealistic goal not only because of are level of inexperience but also because we neither have the money nor, man power to make and maintain a game of that kind, I simply wish to gather information and resources about Multiplayer gaming so that I can better understand the concepts of it and be prepared in the future for when we deiced to take on that mountain, to continue from you analogy, We are gaining the tools and proper knowledge of the mountain before we deiced to climb it.

Thank you for you Comment

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Quote:
Original post by Antheus
Quote:
Original post by Tannis

Languages to use in these type of games does it remain c++ as a industry standard?


What industry standard is will be mostly irrelevant, unless you also have industry budget (AAA titles seem to be $30-80 million these days).

In indie scene, the successful projects seem to be devoid of much C++ use, seemingly going completely the other way, such as Python, PHP or Flash.

Quote:
The Engine would it be better to just create a engine from scratch to suit our needs for the game or purchase/download one and mod it<- if that's possible


Forum FAQ has several cheap/free ones.


Thank you for you Comment, I asked about c++ because I heard of its functionality in these sort of situations, to be honest my team has most of its experience in Python but being more of an Artist then a programmer (although i do know some about programing) I don't know much of the difference between the function capabilities of different languages

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Now to answer your question, to this day all serious game engine I've seen are in c++, now for tools it may be different, but c++ is still the best for game engines.

I recall hearing about some middle ware for this type of game, but I doubt that they ever got used successfully. I'm personally more of a do it yourself type of guy, you learn a great deal more that way, at the cost of time, but at least you can debug it all when it gets used.

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Your coders mostly know Python? Then I'll point you at Panda3D as it has heavy integration with Python. I.e. most of the heavy lifting is done in C++ but it's supposed to be controlled from Python scripting.

C++ is an industry standard for mainstream consoles and Windows but you're hobbyists and/or doing it to learn how to make games so I suggest you play to your strengths and focus on making simple games using what you know to start with.

I also think that whilst implementing MMOs using C++ is currently the way its done that doesn't automatically make it the best way. In fact EVE Onlines backend logic is written in Stackless Python and there's an article out there somewhere (my google-fu is weak and I can't find it right now) explaining why they can't understand no-one else using it.

So, stick with Python, perhaps using Panda3D or whatever to make a few simple games 2D to start with. Learn about simple networking, which can also be done in Python and erm... good luck, might take you a long time to do something really cool or an MMO (many years for example) but you seem to have your head screwed on and be approaching the knowledge gathering in a fairly level headed manner.

Andy

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You will save a lot of time by using an existing engine. Check the Forum FAQ for some possibilities.

C/C++ is probably more than 75% of all the systems in use today, but there are systems running on Java, C#, Python, and other application programming languages. Pick the language you like.

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Thank you all for your comments on this Topic I appreciate not being immediately torn apart for being a amateur who would like to think ahead, most places I'd get flamed with negative comments, All of your comments where very helpful especially those on programming I will defiantly check out Panda 3D and see what it can do

Thanks again

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I'll throw a plug for OGRE in there as well, if you are looking for an engine that is pretty fast and written in native code, but has good Python bindings.

http://www.ogre3d.org

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