Another thing i totally forgot to ask:
Compatibility issues?
I know this from a different field (audio recording) where some cards would not work for some reason with different kinds of motherboards...
Is this any consideration ?
New GPU - which one to get?
Only as far as SLI/Crossfire go... For nVidia SLI you need either an nVidia chipset (supports either AMD or Intel CPUs), or an Intel SLI chipset (Intel CPUs only). For AMD Crossfire, you need an AMD chipset (only AMD CPUs) you can use any chipset that supports two GPU-capable PCIe slots, and either CPU vendor.
For single cards, I'm not aware of any compatibility issues, and certainly not anything widespread or common.
[Edited by - Ravyne on July 29, 2008 11:43:28 PM]
For single cards, I'm not aware of any compatibility issues, and certainly not anything widespread or common.
[Edited by - Ravyne on July 29, 2008 11:43:28 PM]
phantom made a great journal post two weeks ago about the new R700 chip and how it compares to NV's offerings
Ahh I remember when I was stuck on choosing a new GPU a few months back. What I did was look on a online store and see all of the latest gpus. Then it was a matter of researching for the best one. Youtube is also helpful because I could see what it would be like on my computer when you find a video which has the same specs as you. Also look at a heeps of diff benchies because they all seem to be different and what is also funny every card perform differently on games. Some on the new gpus absolutely suck on some games and runs totally awesome on others. It's a matter of choosing the gpu for your games and needs.
I chose an 8800GT, simply because I needed good OpenGL support, and ATI has burned me in the past around that. Also, performance wasn't the major concern for me, I wanted really good drivers and developer tools, samples, docs etc (OpenGL ones) and NVIDIA trumps ATI in that arena. So for me, ATI was never an option, although if I was buying a card for gaming, I would probably go for an ATI due to great price/performance and crossfire being intel chipset friendly.
I'd like to offer my assessment of what GPU you should choose when looking to upgrade your system.
First consider the cost bracket you can afford, then consider which games and programs you need the card for, and then consider which company you are going to go with. Some people I know only like Nvidia, while others only like ATI. Unfortunately this may not get you the best bang for your buck if you restrict yourself to one or the other.
The list below starts with the best deal and going down from there. Judgments are based not only upon price, but performance that consider over 90% of the games available on the market today. Only a few games, namely Crysis on high settings with a resolution at 1920x1200 or above, will stress anything here, even ATI's 4850.
1) ATI 4850 512MB ~$150 (ATI Mid-range solution)
Mid-range? Can we say that anymore with $150 cards that run just about any game currently available? A "mid-range card"that performs well on just about any game on high settings except for perhaps Crysis. I have one of these and can vouch for its incredible effectiveness. No need to go SLI or Crossfire unless you have a 30"+ monitor!
2) ATI 4870 512MB ~$250 (ATI High-end solution)
Unless you're tight on the wallet but don't want to settle for a 4850, even though it'll pull its weight in whatever you throw at it, the 4870 (x1) 512MB is a good solution. Be cautious in that it runs fairly hot, so you want good cooling in your case if this card will be with you for years to come. Slightly faster than the GTX260 in most cases.
3) Nvidia GTX260 896MB ~$260 (Nvidia High-end solution)
A decent solution that parallels the performance of the 4870, for just a little bit more cost, and who like Nvidia over ATI. Don't pay much heed to the fact that the Nvidia solutions lack DX10.1 and a few other features ATI provides. It is mostly marketing gimmicks at this time, unless of course you really need these specific features.
4) ATI 4870x2 1GB ~$450? (ATI Enthusiast solution)
Coming out in a few weeks. There is a 2GB version, but 1GB in most cases isn't even needed, so stick with the 1GB total for this configuration. This card should do Crysis real well for all but those with 30"+ monitors that are setting everything to the max. Every other game will run perfect. It will also likely beat out the GTX280 in many cases.
5) Nvidia GeForce 9800GTX 512MB ~$200 (ATI Mid-range solution)
The price of this card has also dropped since the introduction of the GTX series. It is an excellent solution for those that don't mind slightly outdated hardware. Drivers here are more mature as well, so performance is still rather good compared to the newer generations. Still, the 4850 and 4870 beat it in performance AND price overall, so it's not really worth it.
6) Nvidia GTX280 1GB ~$430 (Nvidia Enthusiast solution)
The cream of the crop when it comes to getting the best performance one can hope to have in a single GPU solution. Prices have come down dramatically since its introduction, so its a solution worth considering if you really need to push the horsepower. Ask yourself first if you do, as again most games today run well on the 4850 if you have a mainstream monitor... ATI's Mid-range solution. This will also likely lose to the 4870x2 in many cases.
These are the main cards offered today that sport the newest technologies and fastest performance. Any of these, depending upon your specific needs, will do you well in your system.
A few key specifics that you may want to consider that will sway you one way or another:
1) OpenGL support (Nvidia)
2) DX10.1 (ATI) (No one uses it right now and it will never be a major feature before DX11)
3) CUDA (Nvidia)
[Edited by - Mathew Anderson on July 31, 2008 2:29:22 PM]
First consider the cost bracket you can afford, then consider which games and programs you need the card for, and then consider which company you are going to go with. Some people I know only like Nvidia, while others only like ATI. Unfortunately this may not get you the best bang for your buck if you restrict yourself to one or the other.
The list below starts with the best deal and going down from there. Judgments are based not only upon price, but performance that consider over 90% of the games available on the market today. Only a few games, namely Crysis on high settings with a resolution at 1920x1200 or above, will stress anything here, even ATI's 4850.
1) ATI 4850 512MB ~$150 (ATI Mid-range solution)
Mid-range? Can we say that anymore with $150 cards that run just about any game currently available? A "mid-range card"that performs well on just about any game on high settings except for perhaps Crysis. I have one of these and can vouch for its incredible effectiveness. No need to go SLI or Crossfire unless you have a 30"+ monitor!
2) ATI 4870 512MB ~$250 (ATI High-end solution)
Unless you're tight on the wallet but don't want to settle for a 4850, even though it'll pull its weight in whatever you throw at it, the 4870 (x1) 512MB is a good solution. Be cautious in that it runs fairly hot, so you want good cooling in your case if this card will be with you for years to come. Slightly faster than the GTX260 in most cases.
3) Nvidia GTX260 896MB ~$260 (Nvidia High-end solution)
A decent solution that parallels the performance of the 4870, for just a little bit more cost, and who like Nvidia over ATI. Don't pay much heed to the fact that the Nvidia solutions lack DX10.1 and a few other features ATI provides. It is mostly marketing gimmicks at this time, unless of course you really need these specific features.
4) ATI 4870x2 1GB ~$450? (ATI Enthusiast solution)
Coming out in a few weeks. There is a 2GB version, but 1GB in most cases isn't even needed, so stick with the 1GB total for this configuration. This card should do Crysis real well for all but those with 30"+ monitors that are setting everything to the max. Every other game will run perfect. It will also likely beat out the GTX280 in many cases.
5) Nvidia GeForce 9800GTX 512MB ~$200 (ATI Mid-range solution)
The price of this card has also dropped since the introduction of the GTX series. It is an excellent solution for those that don't mind slightly outdated hardware. Drivers here are more mature as well, so performance is still rather good compared to the newer generations. Still, the 4850 and 4870 beat it in performance AND price overall, so it's not really worth it.
6) Nvidia GTX280 1GB ~$430 (Nvidia Enthusiast solution)
The cream of the crop when it comes to getting the best performance one can hope to have in a single GPU solution. Prices have come down dramatically since its introduction, so its a solution worth considering if you really need to push the horsepower. Ask yourself first if you do, as again most games today run well on the 4850 if you have a mainstream monitor... ATI's Mid-range solution. This will also likely lose to the 4870x2 in many cases.
These are the main cards offered today that sport the newest technologies and fastest performance. Any of these, depending upon your specific needs, will do you well in your system.
A few key specifics that you may want to consider that will sway you one way or another:
1) OpenGL support (Nvidia)
2) DX10.1 (ATI) (No one uses it right now and it will never be a major feature before DX11)
3) CUDA (Nvidia)
[Edited by - Mathew Anderson on July 31, 2008 2:29:22 PM]
Frankly; no.
You post is wrong on a few levels, mostly todo with the performance difference between the HD4870 and the GTX260 and GTX280.
In short;
The HD4870 out performs the GTX260 in pretty much all tests.
The HD4870 comes in VERY close to the GTX280. Certainly close enough that the 'cream of the crop' is looking nothing more than an over priced and under performing chip.
The HD4870x2 flawlessly beats the GTX280 in the tests I've seen.
Frankly, AMD is a no brainer this time around; the cards are cheaper and more powerful than NV's selection.
About the only things which make NV a worth while option right now is;
1) Opengl support
2) CUDA (and even that is being ported to AMD hardware with NV's help to get PhysX running).
Hell, based on my experiance if you are running Vista AMD even have a driver stability advantage!
If you don't mind me asking where did you get your figures from to come up with your views on the various cards power? Because right now everything I've seen pretty much screams "AMD ftw!"...
You post is wrong on a few levels, mostly todo with the performance difference between the HD4870 and the GTX260 and GTX280.
In short;
The HD4870 out performs the GTX260 in pretty much all tests.
The HD4870 comes in VERY close to the GTX280. Certainly close enough that the 'cream of the crop' is looking nothing more than an over priced and under performing chip.
The HD4870x2 flawlessly beats the GTX280 in the tests I've seen.
Frankly, AMD is a no brainer this time around; the cards are cheaper and more powerful than NV's selection.
About the only things which make NV a worth while option right now is;
1) Opengl support
2) CUDA (and even that is being ported to AMD hardware with NV's help to get PhysX running).
Hell, based on my experiance if you are running Vista AMD even have a driver stability advantage!
If you don't mind me asking where did you get your figures from to come up with your views on the various cards power? Because right now everything I've seen pretty much screams "AMD ftw!"...
Just to toss in a few more bits of info:
ATI has a CUDA competitor, and the architecture of the 48x0 series has more resources available for pure computation.
Linux support on ATI is improving, they've released a ton of technical documentation in recent months which has stabilized a lot of things in the open-source drivers since they no longer have to rely on reverse engineering and inference.
I've read before, but I'm not sure how true it is, that ATI's past OpenGL support issues are partly because of their more-strict interpretation of the OpenGL spec. They have more failures not because they have poor implimentation, but they fail when they should. Again, not sure how much truth there is to that statement though.
ATI has a CUDA competitor, and the architecture of the 48x0 series has more resources available for pure computation.
Linux support on ATI is improving, they've released a ton of technical documentation in recent months which has stabilized a lot of things in the open-source drivers since they no longer have to rely on reverse engineering and inference.
I've read before, but I'm not sure how true it is, that ATI's past OpenGL support issues are partly because of their more-strict interpretation of the OpenGL spec. They have more failures not because they have poor implimentation, but they fail when they should. Again, not sure how much truth there is to that statement though.
Quote:Original post by phantom
Frankly; no.
You post is wrong on a few levels, mostly todo with the performance difference between the HD4870 and the GTX260 and GTX280.
In short;
The HD4870 out performs the GTX260 in pretty much all tests.
The HD4870 comes in VERY close to the GTX280. Certainly close enough that the 'cream of the crop' is looking nothing more than an over priced and under performing chip.
The HD4870x2 flawlessly beats the GTX280 in the tests I've seen.
Frankly, AMD is a no brainer this time around; the cards are cheaper and more powerful than NV's selection.
About the only things which make NV a worth while option right now is;
1) Opengl support
2) CUDA (and even that is being ported to AMD hardware with NV's help to get PhysX running).
Hell, based on my experiance if you are running Vista AMD even have a driver stability advantage!
If you don't mind me asking where did you get your figures from to come up with your views on the various cards power? Because right now everything I've seen pretty much screams "AMD ftw!"...
Just look at various reviews and you will see the cards are placed here appropriately. You have to consider price, performance, features, essentially everything to ensure an accurate assessment. I'm setting these based on an unbiased opinion of course. They are accurate to what the state of these cards are today, although of course there are always interpretations on what should be where, but this is close enough to make an informed decision on your next purchase.
I'm not exactly sure which part you have a concern with? The 4870 is noted as being close to the GTX260 but not outperforming per-say, and the slot is 4), noting that it is still behind my considerations for the 4870. I've agreed with everything you've mentioned here I believe, more or less.
In any case, here are some good reviews that I found useful:
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/powercolor_hd4870/
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14990
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-gtx-280,1953.html
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13736
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/590/1
[Edited by - Mathew Anderson on July 31, 2008 2:14:42 PM]
The default answer to this question at this point in time is: "buy an Ati 4850".
It's powerful (can run any game out there, sans Crysis, at max settings); it's faster than its immediate competition; it has good driver support (flawless under Vista and pretty good under Linux - who'd guess! (*) ); it is packed with features (DX10.1, video decoding, HDMI audio); and it won't burn your pocket.
Now if you want to spend more or less money, feel free to look around. But if you care about the price/performance ratio, the choice is pretty clear.
You really can't go wrong with this card.
(*) Driver support is excellent. I tested 8 games (3 DX10 ones, two DX 9, one GL1.5 and one Glide-over-GL2.0) and everything worked smoothly.
It's powerful (can run any game out there, sans Crysis, at max settings); it's faster than its immediate competition; it has good driver support (flawless under Vista and pretty good under Linux - who'd guess! (*) ); it is packed with features (DX10.1, video decoding, HDMI audio); and it won't burn your pocket.
Now if you want to spend more or less money, feel free to look around. But if you care about the price/performance ratio, the choice is pretty clear.
You really can't go wrong with this card.
(*) Driver support is excellent. I tested 8 games (3 DX10 ones, two DX 9, one GL1.5 and one Glide-over-GL2.0) and everything worked smoothly.
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