. OR, if they are being made to play that way because the rule sets favour those who do?
Does this really add to the enjoyment of the game, how does this make a better experience?
Why is there such an emphasis on Simulating worlds here?
--------------
By the way this post is directed at the kind of Roleplaying games where you behave as a type of character would / or as you see fit, not the Japanese / Story-dominated RPGs where you follow the plot and have a predefined protagonist. Ie. Games like Thief, and Black and White, not games like the Final Fantasy series.
Edited by - Ketchaval on June 8, 2001 11:13:45 AM
WHY true ROLEPLAYING?
Author
Okay, now I may have been advocating ways to improve "roleplaying games", but can anyone tell me what real advantages Roleplaying games have?
-Why should I care if the player is playing as if they were a King of the Green Goblins ? . OR, if they are being made to play that way because the rule sets favour those who do?
Does this really add to the enjoyment of the game, how does this make a better experience?
Why is there such an emphasis on Simulating worlds here?
--------------
By the way this post is directed at the kind of Roleplaying games where you behave as a type of character would / or as you see fit, not the Japanese / Story-dominated RPGs where you follow the plot and have a predefined protagonist. Ie. Games like Thief, and Black and White, not games like the Final Fantasy series.
Edited by - Ketchaval on June 8, 2001 11:13:45 AM
. OR, if they are being made to play that way because the rule sets favour those who do?
Does this really add to the enjoyment of the game, how does this make a better experience?
Why is there such an emphasis on Simulating worlds here?
--------------
By the way this post is directed at the kind of Roleplaying games where you behave as a type of character would / or as you see fit, not the Japanese / Story-dominated RPGs where you follow the plot and have a predefined protagonist. Ie. Games like Thief, and Black and White, not games like the Final Fantasy series.
Edited by - Ketchaval on June 8, 2001 11:13:45 AM
Wavinator breaks out the corn cobb pipe & rocking chair... "Sonny, lemme tell ya...
There are (majorly) two types of gamers: Those who play to beat a game, and those who play to be in a world. I call the first Finishers and the second Escapists.
Finishers, by and large, don''t seem to get into a role. In fact, many that I know don''t like it or consider it embarrassingly immature. They I think enjoy figuring out the game as a system, and using their mind to cleverly beat the system. To this end, I think they have low tolerance for immersive details like NPC lives, game history, or mood setting details. The want to get in, play, and when. They''re Quake or Counter-Strike players, and they don''t (much) look at scenery.
Escapists, on the other hand, want to bake bread, land on planets for the heck of it, or have a home with a family in a game. These folks care if the world responds to them, and are hungry for detail. They''re the type who aren''t embarrassed to get into a role, want a deep world that they can affect, and are delighted when the world identifies with and responds to who they''re supposed to be. Escapists play to be in an alternate world. They''re Daggerfall or early Ultima players, and unfortunately not many games are made for them.
Of course, as with all dichotomies, this one''s false as well.
I''m an escapist mostly, but not when I''m running around levels blowing people away in Counter-Strike!
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
There are (majorly) two types of gamers: Those who play to beat a game, and those who play to be in a world. I call the first Finishers and the second Escapists.
Finishers, by and large, don''t seem to get into a role. In fact, many that I know don''t like it or consider it embarrassingly immature. They I think enjoy figuring out the game as a system, and using their mind to cleverly beat the system. To this end, I think they have low tolerance for immersive details like NPC lives, game history, or mood setting details. The want to get in, play, and when. They''re Quake or Counter-Strike players, and they don''t (much) look at scenery.
Escapists, on the other hand, want to bake bread, land on planets for the heck of it, or have a home with a family in a game. These folks care if the world responds to them, and are hungry for detail. They''re the type who aren''t embarrassed to get into a role, want a deep world that they can affect, and are delighted when the world identifies with and responds to who they''re supposed to be. Escapists play to be in an alternate world. They''re Daggerfall or early Ultima players, and unfortunately not many games are made for them.
Of course, as with all dichotomies, this one''s false as well.
I''m an escapist mostly, but not when I''m running around levels blowing people away in Counter-Strike! --------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
Author
1.One draw might be that it adds more meaning to the toyset that the player is manipulating.
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=42555
It adds a type of more "value" to the toys as it gives them more connotations and mental and emotional links. Ie. Taking the tactical and strategic decisions to different plane of meaning.
The combination of a "realistic" system of interlinked consequences, with greater immersion creates this effect.
In a strategy game, there is little meaning to losing a peasant unit unless it directly affects your / the enemies' chances. Whereas in a RPG that peasant may have a family that rely upon that peasant. This family might starve to death, and thus the weight and "meaning" of that character is greater to the player if they enter into the spirit of the game .
2. The second draw is that if the system is flexible enough to permit a wide variety of strategies to be used, and that these strategies will bring about an effect on the game-world, then, the player can invent and try to bring about their own goals.
Edited by - Ketchaval on June 8, 2001 11:04:02 AM
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=42555
It adds a type of more "value" to the toys as it gives them more connotations and mental and emotional links. Ie. Taking the tactical and strategic decisions to different plane of meaning.
The combination of a "realistic" system of interlinked consequences, with greater immersion creates this effect.
In a strategy game, there is little meaning to losing a peasant unit unless it directly affects your / the enemies' chances. Whereas in a RPG that peasant may have a family that rely upon that peasant. This family might starve to death, and thus the weight and "meaning" of that character is greater to the player if they enter into the spirit of the game .
2. The second draw is that if the system is flexible enough to permit a wide variety of strategies to be used, and that these strategies will bring about an effect on the game-world, then, the player can invent and try to bring about their own goals.
Edited by - Ketchaval on June 8, 2001 11:04:02 AM
quote:Original post by Ketchaval
Okay, now I may have been advocating ways to improve "roleplaying games", but can anyone tell me what real advantages Roleplaying games have?
-Why should I care if the player is playing as if they were a King of the Green Goblins ?
Does this really add to the enjoyment of the game, how does this make a better experience?
Why is there such an emphasis on Simulating worlds here?
The real advantages are that RPGs particularly give you the chance to play the role of an entity with personality (as opposed to reflexes [Quake-style] or a strategic mind [C&C-style], and so on). Sure, you can play most RPGs like either of the two mentioned genres, but can the opposite be said about these genres (that they can be played like RPGs)? Not likely.
Funny that "early Ultima" was mentioned. I find there is more dialog in the early Ultimas than many RPGs nowadays, and that the stories are deeper and more involving. If I had the opportunity, I would recreate such games as Ultima IV and V, with new graphics/sound engines and so on... not make ''em 3D, just a little prettier to look at. Maybe even make an online version of said games so many people could play the game in co-op mode.
... (drifts off into dream/plan land) ...
MatrixCubed
http://MatrixCubed.org
Real advantages?
Depends on where you view them from...
1) The player.
I''m not going to repeat Wavinator''s entire post, but yes the player thinks there is an advantage because he/she enjoys playing that particular type of game.
2) The developer.
Done properly, they sell well. Not really much more than want for money on that front.
There are, of course, advantages outside the above scope - but these advantages are not only limited to the RPG, they may apply to many types of games such as FPS, RTS etc.
These advantages are nothing to do with game play, and include such things as eye candy, high quality sound and atmosphere among others. So people play the game because it has the best new graphics or whatever, and not because its a particularly inventive or revolutionary title. Developers know this and thats why we don''t see a great deal of these good ideas I keep seeing on the forum get into commercial titles.
Man if I was any good at English I could have explained that a whole lot better.
-Mezz
Depends on where you view them from...
1) The player.
I''m not going to repeat Wavinator''s entire post, but yes the player thinks there is an advantage because he/she enjoys playing that particular type of game.
2) The developer.
Done properly, they sell well. Not really much more than want for money on that front.
There are, of course, advantages outside the above scope - but these advantages are not only limited to the RPG, they may apply to many types of games such as FPS, RTS etc.
These advantages are nothing to do with game play, and include such things as eye candy, high quality sound and atmosphere among others. So people play the game because it has the best new graphics or whatever, and not because its a particularly inventive or revolutionary title. Developers know this and thats why we don''t see a great deal of these good ideas I keep seeing on the forum get into commercial titles.
Man if I was any good at English I could have explained that a whole lot better.
-Mezz
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