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_the_phantom_

OpenGL OpenGL3.0.. I mean 2.2

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_the_phantom_    11250
Quote:
Original post by V-man
On the Windows platform, OpenGL doesn't really exist. If you install Windows (2000, XP, Vista), it does properly detect your video card but it won't install the opengl driver. Hmm... why is that?


Well, it does provide an OpenGL1.1 implimentation on XP and a hardware accelerated via D3D 1.4 version on Vista, which is more than MS have to do as they don't have anything todo with OpenGL.

It's like complaining that MS don't ship Firefox and Opera on their Windows install DVDs.

Quote:

Stranger still, it does install DirectX and the DirectX diagnostics utility. You get full hw acceleration.


OMG! MS in doing what is best for their platform shock!
(you also get full HW acceleration on Vista for OpenGL1.4, again more than they have to do as they have nothing todo with OpenGL).

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Neutrinohunter    158
I have to say the news has annoyed me somewhat and is probably going to make me move towards DX10 when I get my new workstations.

Its a shame they've done this as by the time they actually get their arses in gear, DX will be far in the distance. DX has come along way since the 90's and its sad to say OpenGL really hasn't.

I think a good old DX10 wrapper for OpenGL could be in the offing.

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mrbastard    1577
Quote:
Original post by rbarris
The wording on the Blizzard slides was intentionally terse (I never like presentations where the presenter is just reading the words on the slides); if you have any questions about the content in that segment I would be happy to try and respond to them.


There are a couple of new features that I'd like to know a bit more about from a game developer's perspective:

Transform Feedback
-I've read the GPU Gems chapter on using transform feedback in D3D10 for increasing the number of morph targets you can blend between for facial animation. Any more ideas on areas where Transform Feedback will be useful?
-Does using Transform Feedback make it harder/easier to balance feeding the pipeline? Is it just a case of "well, I'm fill bound so I can afford a few extra feedback loops at the vertex stage"?

Conditional Rendering
-I'm pretty sure I understand what this does, and how it improves use of occlusion queries by removing the need for the app code to handle the result. It sounds like it'll make using occlusion queries successfully even harder to understand, but the implementation much easier once you understand how to do it. Any tips? Is there any maximum number (or suggested 'best' number) of draw calls that can be queued up as part of a conditional render?

Deprecation Model:
-any tips on handling rollout of apps using different profiles? I've read a bit on this on the opengl.org forums, but I'd be interested in a game developer's perspective.

Edit: almost forgot GLSL [smile]

Removal of Built-In uniforms
-as GLSL has nothing like HLSL/FX's 'semantics' the built-in uniforms were handy for exchanging shaders between apps. Does the ARB have a better solution, GLFX maybe? (sorry, I've been unable to find anything on the recent GLFX update)

Centroid qualifier
-is this for point-sampling?

thanks

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SergioJdelos    468
Quote:
Original post by mrbastard
Removal of Built-In uniforms
-as GLSL has nothing like HLSL/FX's 'semantics' the built-in uniforms were handy for exchanging shaders between apps. Does the ARB have a better solution, GLFX maybe? (sorry, I've been unable to find anything on the recent GLFX update)

I think that ColladaFX is the official solution.

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BradDaBug    913
Here's something in the spec I found. In the deprecated features section it has this:

Alpha test - AlphaFunc and Enable/Disable target ALPHA_TEST (section 4.1.4), and all associated state.

So alpha testing is deprecated? How do you get equivalent functionality with OpenGL 3.0+?

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Yann L    1802
Quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
So alpha testing is deprecated? How do you get equivalent functionality with OpenGL 3.0+?

You can use the discard keyword in a fragment shader.

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curtmax_0    100
I used to use D3D exclusively (mostly d3d8 and a bit of 9). I switched to OGL about the same time I switched to 'nix.

I gritted my teeth as I coded with stupid extensions and having to consult multiple versions of documentation that were often wrong anyways. I was hoping for OGL3.

This disappointing news has finally convinced me to install Vista and work with D3D10. A quick browse of the API and it's far superior to OGL in ease of use even. Hell, you can't discount the value of a well designed SDK with docs describing everything either.

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BradDaBug    913
Quote:
Original post by Yann L
Quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
So alpha testing is deprecated? How do you get equivalent functionality with OpenGL 3.0+?

You can use the discard keyword in a fragment shader.

Does that have the same performance as the old fashioned way?

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Hodgman    51223
Quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
Quote:
Original post by Yann L
Quote:
Original post by BradDaBug
So alpha testing is deprecated? How do you get equivalent functionality with OpenGL 3.0+?

You can use the discard keyword in a fragment shader.

Does that have the same performance as the old fashioned way?
Well most fixed function stuff is implemented using a driver-generated shader program these days, so it's probably exactly the same.

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Krohm    5030
Quote:
Original post by rbarris
The wording on the Blizzard slides was intentionally terse (I never like presentations where the presenter is just reading the words on the slides); if you have any questions about the content in that segment I would be happy to try and respond to them.
Thank you very much for the opportunity.
The presentation was so compact I cannot even think at what to ask. Could you please add some comments on what the speakers actually said? Since this information is lost to all of us who weren't there, maybe there's something important.

Thank you in advance.

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CmpDev    100
Maybe I missed something but an AMD employee says OpenGL did give programmers what they wanted ....hmmmm
A step in some direction
Quote:
There has been much controversy over the direction the Khronos Group/OpenGL ARB has chosen for the next major version of OpenGL. After testing an approach that would have a drastic effect on the API, requiring complete OpenGL application rewrites and not introducing any of the long awaited features modern GPUs are capable of, the choice was made to give programmers what they are really waiting for ...

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V-man    813
Quote:
Original post by CmpDev
Maybe I missed something but an AMD employee says OpenGL did give programmers what they wanted ....hmmmm
A step in some direction
Quote:
There has been much controversy over the direction the Khronos Group/OpenGL ARB has chosen for the next major version of OpenGL. After testing an approach that would have a drastic effect on the API, requiring complete OpenGL application rewrites and not introducing any of the long awaited features modern GPUs are capable of, the choice was made to give programmers what they are really waiting for ...


They need to post a list of developers who are in favor and another who is against, or at least make a poll.

All I saw in this thread is a bunch of game developers who wanted Long Peaks, another bunch who won't use GL3 so the bad news doesn't effect them (they are satisfied with GL 1.1), 2 people who think OpenGL is open sourced and other types of misinformation.
The biggest misinformation was that with Long Peaks, old programs would not run and that blog says the same thing in the first few lines

Quote:
After testing an approach that would have a drastic effect on the API, requiring complete OpenGL application rewrites and not introducing any of the long awaited features modern GPUs are capable of

"OpenGL application rewrites" is basically bullshit since the plan was that old code would continue to run with old context.

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JMNightmare    122
Well, you can't blame them for not wanting to mess up a perfectly good library... But I do hope they can add the features we wanted for 3.0, like that object model. I look forward to 3.1, and hope that it won't be 2.3 =[.

As for people complaining OpenGL doesn't exist on Windows, you must remember that Microsoft isn't really to blame, crappy ass hardware drivers (AHEM INTEL) cause more bugs than Microsoft causes performance issues (but it does add a hassle of loading all the extensions).

[Edited by - JMNightmare on September 20, 2008 11:49:54 PM]

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