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MARS_999

DX11 A few questions about DX10 and other items

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Well today GL died and DX won the battle most are saying now. So, I am now looking at maybe moving to DX10 or DX11, and I have heard that DX11 SDK will be out in Nov? Will the SDK run on DX10/10.1 hardware accelerated or in software mode? If I move to DX should I wait till DX11 comes out? Is DX10 coding going to carry over into DX11, or will DX11 be a complete overhaul like 9 to 10 was? What about a GUI library for DX10? What about Physx libs? I want something that is native to DX10, basically drop in and play? What about model loading or rendering? Does DX10 have a decent model loader like .x files under DX10? Is the DXUT or math libs still in DX10? I need some of these questions answered so I can make my decision soon, and what about ATI/Nvidia drivers for DX10 are all the features included as of now on both? Meaning if I code DX10 will it run on both without a headache? Thanks

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Original post by MARS_999So, I am now looking at maybe moving to DX10 or DX11, and I have heard that DX11 SDK will be out in Nov? Will the SDK run on DX10/10.1 hardware accelerated or in software mode?


A techpreview will be out in November. Since D3D10 it has become a tradition to show the developers a techpreview first. While it will be mostly complete some minor changes can still happen. Direct3D 11 will run with Direct3D 10/10.1 in hardware mode you just can't use the new D3D11 features like the compute shaders.

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Original post by MARS_999If I move to DX should I wait till DX11 comes out? Is DX10 coding going to carry over into DX11, or will DX11 be a complete overhaul like 9 to 10 was?


It will be mostly the same. Porting from 10 to 11 should be just a matter of some hours. Most of this could be done with a simple find/replace.

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Original post by MARS_999What about a GUI library for DX10? What about Physx libs? I want something that is native to DX10, basically drop in and play?


I am not aware of a GUI lib but I am never actively searched for any as we use our own. I am not sure where you see problem with PhysX. The PhysX SDK may not contain a sample for Direct3D 10 but it is mostly the same workflow as with Direct3D 9

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Original post by MARS_999What about model loading or rendering? Does DX10 have a decent model loader like .x files under DX10?


X Files are considered as dead. They have some loader code for their new SDK asset format. But in general writing an asset loader is very straight forward.

Quote:
Original post by MARS_999Is the DXUT or math libs still in DX10?


Yes the DXUT is still part of the SDK and D3DX contains still the math libraries.

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Original post by MARS_999I need some of these questions answered so I can make my decision soon, and what about ATI/Nvidia drivers for DX10 are all the features included as of now on both? Meaning if I code DX10 will it run on both without a headache?


Direct3D 10 requires that the hardware and the driver support the full techlevel. There are only some optional features left. In our case we run the exact same code on every Direct3D 10 hardware.

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Im still using DX9 and I think ill continue to use it until XP totally dies out then I'll move to the most widespread supported api.
Currently DX9 is more than enough for what I'm doing.

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Well today GL died
I briefly discussed OpenGL with Rob at GameFest last week and he mentioned there was an announcement due that week. I'm a bit out of the loop - what came up and why do you declare GL dead?

Ralf's covered your questions, but just to throw my 2-pence in... Go with D3D 10.0 and be happy, it can be stated that simply.

The only case I'd suggest you hold off for D3D11 is if you want to go for a massively parallel architecture or want to port some old X360 native code over. The architectural changes with 11 allow for a very different design that can be quite tricky to implement on 10.x and older API's. The stuff for free-threaded resource creation and immediate/deferred display lists is powerful.

As an aside, I was also discussing with Rob and Richard last week about my thoughts that traditional frame-based designs will be rapidly going the way of the dodo in this multi-threaded world. But thats a whole other discussion [grin]

Quote:
Does DX10 have a decent model loader like .x files under DX10?
There are ID3DX10Mesh objects that map reasonably well to legacy formats but there is no .X support nor any mesh manipulation functions. However you can still do all your mesh work with D3DX9 and a NULLREF device then just copy the ID3DXMesh to a ID3DX10Mesh for rendering. I've posted the code for this a few times but its not too hard to figure out for yourself [wink]

hth
Jack

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Original post by jollyjeffers
Quote:
Well today GL died
I briefly discussed OpenGL with Rob at GameFest last week and he mentioned there was an announcement due that week. I'm a bit out of the loop - what came up and why do you declare GL dead?
Ok, I shouldn't be so lazy!

Interesting thread to read and Oluseyi's comments about GL having other huge markets to cater for is a good one. Leading the GL community on was bad form, but maybe games just aren't that important to them when compared with multi-billion dollar CAD industries...?

Jack

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Original post by jollyjeffers
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Original post by jollyjeffers
Quote:
Well today GL died
I briefly discussed OpenGL with Rob at GameFest last week and he mentioned there was an announcement due that week. I'm a bit out of the loop - what came up and why do you declare GL dead?
Ok, I shouldn't be so lazy!

Interesting thread to read and Oluseyi's comments about GL having other huge markets to cater for is a good one. Leading the GL community on was bad form, but maybe games just aren't that important to them when compared with multi-billion dollar CAD industries...?

Jack


Hi Jack, the multi-billion dollar industry is fine, but games as a whole is many many times larger than they are, if everyone used GL vs. DX for games CAD would be a very small part as a whole. GL probably isn't dead, but sure feels like it when most people are talking about leaving it...

What are you saying about DX11? Will DX11 be different to code for than Dx10?

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Original post by MARS_999
Hi Jack, the multi-billion dollar industry is fine, but games as a whole is many many times larger than they are, if everyone used GL vs. DX for games CAD would be a very small part as a whole. GL probably isn't dead, but sure feels like it when most people are talking about leaving it...
I'm not well versed on the size (customers/companies/revenue) of the CAD and dependent industries so I don't know how it compares. I was just commenting that Oluseyi seemed to have raised a good point that one distinct interpretation of this is that the ARB/Khronos group bent to keep certain camp(s) happy and that gaming may well not have been their interest.

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Original post by MARS_999
What are you saying about DX11? Will DX11 be different to code for than Dx10?
As Ralf commented the actual code changes for D3D11 are pretty reasonable from a 10.0/10.1 perspective and if you're familiar with 10 you'll be fine with 11.

What I was getting at is the architectural possibilities. A big part of the D3D11 design is to better support multi-threading, something that isn't such a great story under D3D10 or D3D9.

Designing a "traditonal" D3D9/D3D10 renderer and then porting it up to D3D11 is perfectly fine. But if you were to go straight for D3D11 (which can support down-level hardware) then you have more options w.r.t. the design and architecture of your code - you can do more interesting and more powerful things with multi-threading.

If you want to get rolling straight away then stick with the traditional approach and go for D3D10. I would imagine you need to be at the bleeding edge with a pretty large and complex engine (inc. non graphics parts) to really see any ROI on a massively multi-threaded next-gen engine right now [smile]

hth
Jack

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One last question, maybe Jack can answer it, with DX11 they are talking about Multi-core CPUs being utilized better, so what do they mean by this? Would I be better off with a quad core vs. a dual core for DX11? Thanks

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This depends on your software. The multi core support for Direct3D 11 is not a feature that works automatic without special code. Direct3D 11 allows you to fill multiple “display list” at the same time on different threads. Finely you can send all this lists in the right order to the GPU for rendering. The advantage by doing this is that most CPU work will be already done by the threads that fill the display list.

If your software can fill four list parallel you can be faster with a quad core. But you need to be CPU limited and not GPU limited.

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Right now, with D3D9 and 10, there is very limited support for mutlithreading and doing things like resource creation or issuing drawing commands.

You pretty much have two choices;
1) don't do it. All drawing and resource creation/uploads take place in the main rendering thread the device was created in (like how a GL context is dealt with), just using other threads to decompress the data.

2) create a multi-threaded device which lets you do things from multiple threads at once but involves all manner of criticalsection locks which hurt performance.

With DX11 the landscape changes in that you'll be able to create resources from any thread and there are 'deferred' contexts which are used for constructing display lists which can then be executed from the main context.

Jack, Superpig and myself go into various levels of detail about this in our XNA Gamefest write ups in the journal section.

As for performance, it's less about DX11 and your cores and more about how the games as a whole are designed, DX11 just removes the cluggyness from dealing with multithreading.

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D3DReadFileToBlob(L"../Shaders/SimplePixelShader.cso", &psBlob); assert(psBlob); hr = g_d3dDevice->CreatePixelShader(psBlob->GetBufferPointer(), psBlob->GetBufferSize(), nullptr, &g_d3dPixelShader); SafeRelease(psBlob); if (FAILED(hr)) { return false; } //Load Vertex Buffer D3D11_BUFFER_DESC vertexBufferDesc{}; vertexBufferDesc.ByteWidth = sizeof(VertexPosColor) * _countof(g_Vertices); vertexBufferDesc.Usage = D3D11_USAGE_DEFAULT; vertexBufferDesc.BindFlags = D3D11_BIND_VERTEX_BUFFER; D3D11_SUBRESOURCE_DATA resourceData{}; resourceData.pSysMem = g_Vertices; hr = g_d3dDevice->CreateBuffer(&vertexBufferDesc, &resourceData, &g_d3dVertexBuffer); if (FAILED(hr)) { return false; } //Load Index Buffer D3D11_BUFFER_DESC indexBufferDesc{}; indexBufferDesc.ByteWidth = sizeof(WORD) * _countof(g_Indicies); indexBufferDesc.Usage = D3D11_USAGE_DEFAULT; indexBufferDesc.BindFlags = D3D11_BIND_INDEX_BUFFER; resourceData.pSysMem = g_Indicies; hr = g_d3dDevice->CreateBuffer(&indexBufferDesc, &resourceData, &g_d3dIndexBuffer); if (FAILED(hr)) { return false; } //Load Constant Buffers D3D11_BUFFER_DESC cBufferDesc{}; cBufferDesc.ByteWidth = sizeof(XMMATRIX); cBufferDesc.Usage = D3D11_USAGE_DEFAULT; cBufferDesc.BindFlags = D3D11_BIND_CONSTANT_BUFFER; for (size_t bufferID = 0; bufferID < NumConstantBuffers; bufferID++) { hr = g_d3dDevice->CreateBuffer(&cBufferDesc, nullptr, &g_d3dConstantBuffers[bufferID]); if (FAILED(hr)) { return false; } } //Setup Projection Matrix RECT client{}; GetClientRect(g_WinHnd, &client); float clientWidth = static_cast<float>(client.right - client.left); float clientHeight = static_cast<float>(client.bottom - client.top); g_ProjectionMatrix = DirectX::XMMatrixPerspectiveFovLH(XMConvertToRadians(45.0f), clientWidth / clientHeight, 0.1f, 100.0f); g_d3dDeviceContext->UpdateSubresource(g_d3dConstantBuffers[CB_Application], 0, nullptr, &g_ProjectionMatrix, 0, 0); return true; } void Update(float deltaTime) { XMVECTOR eyePosition = XMVectorSet(0, 0, -10, 1); XMVECTOR focusPoint = XMVectorSet(0, 0, 0, 1); XMVECTOR upDirection = XMVectorSet(0, 1, 0, 0); g_ViewMatrix = DirectX::XMMatrixLookAtLH(eyePosition, focusPoint, upDirection); g_d3dDeviceContext->UpdateSubresource(g_d3dConstantBuffers[CB_Frame], 0, nullptr, &g_ViewMatrix, 0, 0); static float angle = 0.0f; angle += 90.0f * deltaTime; XMVECTOR rotationAxis = XMVectorSet(0, 1, 1, 0); g_WorldMatrix = DirectX::XMMatrixRotationAxis(rotationAxis, XMConvertToRadians(angle)); g_d3dDeviceContext->UpdateSubresource(g_d3dConstantBuffers[CB_Object], 0, nullptr, &g_WorldMatrix, 0, 0); } void Clear(const FLOAT clearColor[4], FLOAT clearDepth, UINT8 clearStencil) { g_d3dDeviceContext->ClearRenderTargetView(g_d3dRenderTargerView, clearColor); g_d3dDeviceContext->ClearDepthStencilView(g_d3dDepthStencilView, D3D11_CLEAR_DEPTH | D3D11_CLEAR_STENCIL, clearDepth, clearStencil); } void Present(bool vSync) { if (vSync) { g_d3dSwapChain->Present(1, 0); } else { g_d3dSwapChain->Present(0, 0); } } void Render() { assert(g_d3dDevice); assert(g_d3dDeviceContext); Clear(Colors::CornflowerBlue, 1.0f, 0); //IA const UINT vertexStride = sizeof(VertexPosColor); const UINT offset = 0; g_d3dDeviceContext->IASetVertexBuffers(0, 1, &g_d3dVertexBuffer, &vertexStride, &offset); g_d3dDeviceContext->IASetInputLayout(g_d3dInputLayout); g_d3dDeviceContext->IASetIndexBuffer(g_d3dIndexBuffer, DXGI_FORMAT_R16_UINT, 0); g_d3dDeviceContext->IASetPrimitiveTopology(D3D11_PRIMITIVE_TOPOLOGY_TRIANGLELIST); //VS g_d3dDeviceContext->VSSetShader(g_d3dVertexShader, nullptr, 0); g_d3dDeviceContext->VSGetConstantBuffers(0, NumConstantBuffers, g_d3dConstantBuffers); //RS g_d3dDeviceContext->RSSetState(g_d3dRasterizerState); g_d3dDeviceContext->RSSetViewports(1, &g_Viewport); //PS g_d3dDeviceContext->PSSetShader(g_d3dPixelShader, nullptr, 0); //OM g_d3dDeviceContext->OMSetRenderTargets(1, &g_d3dRenderTargerView, g_d3dDepthStencilView); g_d3dDeviceContext->OMSetDepthStencilState(g_d3dDepthStencilState, 1); //draw g_d3dDeviceContext->DrawIndexed(_countof(g_Indicies), 0, 0); Present(g_EnableVSync); } void CleanUp() { SafeRelease(g_d3dVertexShader); SafeRelease(g_d3dPixelShader); SafeRelease(g_d3dVertexBuffer); SafeRelease(g_d3dIndexBuffer); SafeRelease(g_d3dInputLayout); SafeRelease(g_d3dDepthStencilBuffer); for (size_t bufferID = 0; bufferID < NumConstantBuffers; bufferID++) { SafeRelease(g_d3dConstantBuffers[bufferID]); } SafeRelease(g_d3dDepthStencilState); SafeRelease(g_d3dRasterizerState); SafeRelease(g_d3dRenderTargerView); SafeRelease(g_d3dDepthStencilView); SafeRelease(g_d3dSwapChain); SafeRelease(g_d3dDeviceContext); SafeRelease(g_d3dDevice); }  
    • By MarcusAseth
      Hi guys, I'm trying to learn this stuff but running into some problems 😕
      I've compiled my .hlsl into a header file which contains the global variable with the precompiled shader data:
      //... // Approximately 83 instruction slots used #endif const BYTE g_vs[] = { 68, 88, 66, 67, 143, 82, 13, 236, 152, 133, 219, 113, 173, 135, 18, 87, 122, 208, 124, 76, 1, 0, 0, 0, 16, 76, 0, 0, 6, 0, //.... And now following the "Compiling at build time to header files" example at this msdn link , I've included the header files in my main.cpp and I'm trying to create the vertex shader like this:
      hr = g_d3dDevice->CreateVertexShader(g_vs, sizeof(g_vs), nullptr, &g_d3dVertexShader); if (FAILED(hr)) { return -1; } and this is failing, entering the if and returing -1.
      Can someone point out what I'm doing wrong? 😕 
    • By Toastmastern
      Hello everyone,
      After a few years of break from coding and my planet render game I'm giving it a go again from a different angle. What I'm struggling with now is that I have created a Frustum that works fine for now atleast, it does what it's supose to do alltho not perfect. But with the frustum came very low FPS, since what I'm doing right now just to see if the Frustum worked is to recreate the vertex buffer every frame that the camera detected movement. This is of course very costly and not the way to do it. Thats why I'm now trying to learn how to create a dynamic vertexbuffer instead and to map and unmap the vertexes, in the end my goal is to update only part of the vertexbuffer that is needed, but one step at a time ^^

      So below is my code which I use to create the Dynamic buffer. The issue is that I want the size of the vertex buffer to be big enough to handle bigger vertex buffers then just mPlanetMesh.vertices.size() due to more vertices being added later when I start to do LOD and stuff, the first render isn't the biggest one I will need.
      vertexBufferDesc.Usage = D3D11_USAGE_DYNAMIC; vertexBufferDesc.ByteWidth = mPlanetMesh.vertices.size(); vertexBufferDesc.BindFlags = D3D11_BIND_VERTEX_BUFFER; vertexBufferDesc.CPUAccessFlags = D3D11_CPU_ACCESS_WRITE; vertexBufferDesc.MiscFlags = 0; vertexBufferDesc.StructureByteStride = 0; vertexData.pSysMem = &mPlanetMesh.vertices[0]; vertexData.SysMemPitch = 0; vertexData.SysMemSlicePitch = 0; result = device->CreateBuffer(&vertexBufferDesc, &vertexData, &mVertexBuffer); if (FAILED(result)) { return false; } What happens is that the 
      result = device->CreateBuffer(&vertexBufferDesc, &vertexData, &mVertexBuffer); Makes it crash due to Access Violation. When I put the vertices.size() in it works without issues, but when I try to set it to like vertices.size() * 2 it crashes.
      I googled my eyes dry tonight but doesn't seem to find people with the same kind of issue, I've read that the vertex buffer can be bigger if needed. What I'm I doing wrong here?
       
      Best Regards and Thanks in advance
      Toastmastern
    • By yonisi
      Hi,
      I have a terrain engine where the terrain and water are on different grids. So I'm trying to render planar reflections of the terrain into the water grid. After reading some web pages and docs and also trying to learn from the RasterTek reflections demo and the small water bodies demo as well. What I do is as follows:
      1. Create a Reflection view matrix  - Technically I ONLY flip the camera position in the Y direction (Positive Y is up) and add to it 2 * waterLevel. Then I update the View matrix and I save that matrix for later. The code:
      void Camera::UpdateReflectionViewMatrix( float waterLevel ) { mBackupPosition = mPosition; mBackupLook = mLook; mPosition.y = -mPosition.y + 2.0f * waterLevel; //mLook.y = -mLook.y + 2.0f * waterLevel; UpdateViewMatrix(); mReflectionView = View(); } 2. I render the Terrain geometry to a 512x512 sized Render target by using the Reflection view matrix and an opposite culling (My Terrain is using front culling by nature so I'm using back culling for the Reflction render pass). Let me say that I checked with the Graphics debugger and the Reflection Render target looks "OK" at this stage (Picture attached). I don't know if the fact that the terrain is shown only at the top are of the texture is expected or not, but it seems OK.

      3. Render the Reflection texture into the water using projective texturing - I hope this step is OK code wise. Basically I'm sending to the shader the WorldReflectionViewProj matrix that was created at step 1 in order to use it for the projective texture coordinates, I then convert the position in the DS (Water and terrain are drawn with Tessellation) to the projective tex coords using that WorldReflectionViewProj matrix, then I sample the reflection texture after setting up the coordinates in the PS. Here is the code:
      //Send the ReflectionWorldViewProj matrix to the shader: XMStoreFloat4x4(&mPerFrameCB.Data.ReflectionWorldViewProj, XMMatrixTranspose( ( mWorld * pCam->GetReflectedView() ) * mProj )); //Setting up the Projective tex coords in the DS: Output.projTexPosition = mul(float4(worldPos.xyz, 1), g_ReflectionWorldViewProj); //Setting up the coords in the PS and sampling the reflection texture: float2 projTexCoords; projTexCoords.x = input.projTexPosition.x / input.projTexPosition.w / 2.0 + 0.5; projTexCoords.y = -input.projTexPosition.y / input.projTexPosition.w / 2.0 + 0.5; projTexCoords += normal.xz * 0.025; float4 reflectionColor = gReflectionMap.SampleLevel(SamplerClampLinear, projTexCoords, 0); texColor += reflectionColor * 0.25; I'll add that when compiling the PS I'm getting a warning on those dividing by input.projTexPosition.w for a possible float division by 0, I tried to add some offset or some minimum to the dividing term but that still not solved my issue.
      Here is the problem itself. At relatively flat view angles I'm seeing correct reflections (Or at least so it seems), but as I pitch the camera down, I'm seeing those artifacts which I have no idea where are coming from. I'm culling the terrain in the reflection render pass when it's lower than water height (I have heightmaps for that).
       
      Any help will be appreciated because I don't know what is wrong or where else to look.
    • By thmfrnk
      Hi,
      I am looking for a usefull commandline based texture compression tool with the rights to be able to ship with my application. It should have following caps:
      Supports all major image format as source files (jpeg, png, tga, bmp) Export as DDS Compression Formats BC1, BC2, BC3, BC4, BC7 I am actually using the nvdxt tool from Nvidia, but it does not support BC4 (which I need for one-channel 8bit textures). Everything else which I found wasn't really useful.
      Any suggestions?
      Thx
       
    • By trojanfoe
      I have been trying to create a BlendState for my UI text sprites so that they are both alpha-blended (so you can see them) and invert the pixel they are rendered over (again, so you can see them).
      In order to get alpha blending you would need:
      SrcBlend = SRC_ALPHA DestBlend = INV_SRC_ALPHA and in order to have inverted colours you would need something like:
      SrcBlend = INV_DEST_COLOR DestBlend = INV_SRC_COLOR and you can't have both.
      So I have come to the conclusion that it's not possible; am I right?
    • By Royma
      In traditional way, it needs 6 passes for a point light and many passes for cascaded shadow mapping to generate shadow maps. Recently I learnt a method that using a geometry shader to generate all the shadow maps in one pass.I specify a render target and a depth-stencil buffer which are both Texture2dArray in DirectX11.It looks much better than the traditional way I think.But after I implemented it, I found cascaded shadow mapping runs much slower than the traditional way.The fps slow down from 60 to 35.I don't know why.I guess may be I should do some culling or maybe the geometry shader is not efficient.
      I want to know the reason that I reduced the drawcalls from 8 to 1, but it runs slow down.Should I abandon this method or is there any way to optimize this method to run more efficiently than multi-pass rendering?
      Here is the gs code:

      [maxvertexcount(24)]
      void main(
          triangle DepthGsIn input[3] : SV_POSITION,
          inout TriangleStream< DepthPsIn > output
      )
      {
          for (uint k = 0; k < 8; ++k)
          {
              DepthPsIn element;
              element.RTIndex = k;
              for (uint i = 0; i < 3; ++i)
              {
                  float2 shadowSlopeBias = calculateShadowSlopeBias(input.normal, -g_cameras[k].world[1]);
                  float shadowBias = shadowSlopeBias.y * g_cameras[k].shadowMapParameters.x + g_cameras[k].shadowMapParameters.y;
                  element.position = input.position + shadowBias * g_cameras[k].world[1];
                  element.position = mul(element.position, g_cameras[k].viewProjection);
                  element.depth = element.position.z / element.position.w;
                  
                  output.Append(element);
              }
              output.RestartStrip();
          }
      }
       
    • By savail
      Hey,
      There are a few things which confuse me regarding DirectX 11 and HLSL shaders in general. I would be very grateful for your advice!
      1. Let's take for example a scene which invokes 2 totally separate pipeline render passes interchangeably. I understand I need to bind correct shaders for each of the render pass and potentially blend/depth or rasterizer state but what about resources such as Constant Buffers, Shader Resource Views and Unordered Access Views? Assuming that the second render pass uses none of the resources used by the first pass, do I still need to unbind the resources and clean pipeline state after first pass? Or is it ok to leave pipeline with unbound garbage since anything I'd need to bind for second pass would overwrite contents in the appropriate register slots anyway?
      2. Is it a good practice to assign register slots manually to all resources in HLSL?
      3. I thought about assigning manually register slots for every distinct render pass up to the maximum slot limit if neccessary. For example in 1 render pass I invoke 3 CS's, 2 VS's and 2 PS's and for all resources used by those shaders I try to fill as many register slots as neccessary and potentially reuse many times the same slot in shaders sharing the same resource. I was wondering if there is any performance penalty or gain when I bind all of my needed resources at the start of render pass and never gonna have to do it again until next render pass? - this means potentially binding a lot of registers and having excessive number of bound resources for every shader that is run.
      4. Is it a good practice to create a separate include file for every resource that occurs in >= 2 shader files or is it better to duplicate the declarations? In first case, the code is imo easier to maintain and edit but might be harder to read if there's too many includes. I've come up with a compromise between these 2 like this: create a separate include file for every CB that occurs in >= 2 shader files and a separate include file for every sampler I ever need to use. All other resources like srvs and uavs I prefer to duplicate in multiple shaders because they take much less space than CB for example... I'm not sure however if that's a good practice
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