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daviangel

VS 2008 SP1 now available

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daviangel    604
Well if anyone else has noticed it looks like Microsoft finally released VS2008 SP1. I was waiting for it mainly to be able to use the VS2008 IDE to work with SQL Server 2008 which was just recently also released. Overview This download installs Visual Studio 2008 SP1 and the .NET Framework 3.5 Service Pack 1 (SP1). SP1 addresses issues that were found through a combination of customer and partner feedback, as well as internal testing. These service packs offer Visual Studio and .NET Framework users improvements in responsiveness, stability and performance. Click here for more information regarding about these service packs. IMPORTANT * If you previously installed a Visual Studio 2008 Hotfix or Visual Studio 2008 SP1 pre-release, you must run the Service Pack Preparation tool before installing Visual Studio 2008 SP1. * If you have multiple Visual Studio products installed, you must upgrade all of them to SP1. If you have Visual Studio 2008 and one or more 2008 Express Editions, you cannot upgrade the Express Editions until you have upgraded Visual Studio. * Prior to installation, you should carefully review the included readme file to be aware of any known issues with this release. * The following technologies have been tested and verified to work with SP1: o Silverlight 2 SDK Beta 2 & Silverlight Tools Beta 2. (If Silverlight Tools Beta 2 is already installed, you must upgrade it after you install Visual Studio 2008 SP1. To upgrade, use the installer on the Silverlight Tools Beta 2 page on the Microsoft Download Center Web site.) o MVC Preview Release #3 o ASP.NET Extensions/Dynamic Data Preview o VC 2008 Feature Pack o VB PowerPack Controls (2.0 & 3.0) o Expression Studio 2 (RTM) o SQL Server 2008 o .NET Framework 3.5 SDK o XSLT Profiler o VSTA 2.0 SDK o Visual Studio 2008 SDK If you encounter issues installing SP1, uninstall technologies and/or development add-ins not listed above and retry SP1 installation. As further technologies are updated and verified to be compatible with SP1 they will be added to this list. Oh and the associated MSDN library is also available now: MSDN Library for Visual Studio 2008 SP1

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Cambo_frog    855
Quote:
Original post by AndyPandyV2
If your just working with C++ is there any reason to download this? Looks pretty uninteresting based on the readme.


IMO it's worth it for the VC 2008 Feature Pack (some TR1 implementation plus some sexy new MFC controls).

I had installed the feature pack previously. Does anyone know if this SP1 now integrates help files for the feature pack into VS, or do you still need to use the online help?

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Cambo_frog    855
Quote:
Original post by Spoonbender
There's a MSDN library download for SP1, so I assume that includes the TR1 stuff.

Also, here and here for C++ specific fixes and improvements. There are a few things.


Thanks for the links, it looks very tempting.

May wait a while though to see if anybody has problems with the installer :)

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Daaark    3553
Quote:
Original post by fpsgamer
Quote:
Original post by A dam
still gonna stick with VS6


Ummm, are you make an attempt at ironic humor?
Newer VS IDEs can be very slow and unresponsive on machines only a few years old. Although, in that case, you can use code::blocks and call the newer VS compilers.

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joe1024    100
Quote:
Original post by Daaark
Newer VS IDEs can be very slow and unresponsive on machines only a few years old. Although, in that case, you can use code::blocks and call the newer VS compilers.
I`ve got a C2D and 1 GB RAM, but VS2005 is unusable on my rig. You type faster than it manages to write into source code, not even mentioning stalls here and there. And constant swapping doesn`t help either. I had to endure it due to one project that lasted 4 months, but never again, for no money on earth...

On the other hand, on same rig, my old copy of VS6 is blazingly fast (though, only marginally faster compared to AMD XP 3200+). I do miss some debugging features of higher versions, but not that much so that I`d lower my productivity.

And of course, if you need MFC, you can`t use Express version and need to shell out the money for sth that barely runs on Core2Duo.

No, thank you, I`m not that stupid, I`ll stick with VS 6 couple years more and see if MS finally manages to release sth that doesn`t need a pair of 7 GHz octacores...

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Deventer    263
Quote:
Original post by joe1024
I`ve got a C2D and 1 GB RAM, but VS2005 is unusable on my rig. You type faster than it manages to write into source code, not even mentioning stalls here and there. And constant swapping doesn`t help either.

I wonder if FIX: The Visual Studio 2005 IDE stops responding when you work with Visual C++ projects would have helped the situation. Certainly makes things a lot more pleasant for me. Previously on a rather large project I worked on, I had to disable Intellisense for the very reason you mentioned, though I only had a single core machine and one of my colleagues with a dual core didn't have this problem.

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joe1024    100
If you need a fix to be able to just type the code, that`s a red flag for me.
On the AMDXP2500+ / 512 MB it was totally unusable aaaannnnnnndddddd eeeeevvvveeeerrrrryyyytttthhhiiinnngggg wwwaaaaaassss ssssssooooooo sssssllllloooowwwwwww


Does the VS2k8 finally allow UNDO while debugging (with you sepcifying how much space on disk you are willing to reserve to this) ?
Or is there a way how to use MFC with Express version ?
If not, VC6 is the way to go, despite little issues with conformancy/templates that even aren`t issues once you get used to them.

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Antheus    2409
Quote:
Original post by joe1024
Quote:
Original post by Daaark
Newer VS IDEs can be very slow and unresponsive on machines only a few years old. Although, in that case, you can use code::blocks and call the newer VS compilers.
I`ve got a C2D and 1 GB RAM, but VS2005 is unusable on my rig.


VS2005 had some issues with intellisense and threading, which resulted in such problems. The problem wasn't even directly related to size of project, since I've experienced it with some fairly small ones.

This issue was fixed for 2005, was never present in 2008, which improved a lot on overall responsiveness as well.

Quote:
If not, VC6 is the way to go, despite little issues with conformancy/templates that even aren`t issues once you get used to them.


Or, get a 4 gig RAM, quad core. They probably cost less than a full copy of VS.

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davepermen    1047
what i like:
- the new .net 3.5 client package (a small version of the .net framework for clients. just tested my xna game and it compiles towards it => smaller offline installation package.. client + xna + game)

- the firefox addon for clickonce. finally no need to launch iexplore with the link just to start a clickonce app. just use the default browser (have to test if opera can handle it :)). i wont switch from launching iexplore, though, as it works. but nice for the future.

- my projects still work :)

not much else currently. i'll have to check out if some framework bug i've encountered is still there (mainly ping was not working correctly). but as i've manually fixed all those bugs in my apps yet, i don't really care that much :)

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joe1024    100
Quote:
Original post by Antheus
Or, get a 4 gig RAM, quad core. They probably cost less than a full copy of VS.

Correct me if I`m wrong, OK ?
I`d have to upgrade my PC - i.e buy new MB+CPU+RAM+Case+HDD for about 500 EUR, then risk loosing all SW that I already have installed (or I could BUY ANOTHER drive for a backup if sth goes wrong and Windows doesn`t recover from new MB (which happenned to me quite few times)). Of course, add 1-2 weekends for reinstall of all apps.

Then I`d have to fork out >300 EUR for VS2008 so that I could do what I can do now with VS6.

Hmmm, let me guess ...

ROFL

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Spoonbender    1258
Quote:
Original post by joe1024
If you need a fix to be able to just type the code, that`s a red flag for me.

And using a compiler that does not recognize C++ code, and in several cases generates invalid code is not a red flag?

Quote:

If not, VC6 is the way to go, despite little issues with conformancy/templates that even aren`t issues once you get used to them.

"little" issues? No, I'd be more worried about 1) all the huge issues, and 2) the known compiler bugs causing it to emit invalid code.
Not to mention the nonexistent support, even from most third-party libraries.

Seriously, if the 2008 IDE is too slow for you, you have plenty of sane options:
- Use the 2008 compiler with another IDE (Code::Blocks, for example), or without an IDE at all
- Use VS2k3 instead.
- Use a completely different compiler (although that may be tricky if you need to use MFC)

VS6 is not the way to go, whether or not you can use 2008.

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Spoonbender    1258
Quote:
Original post by Cambo_frog
Quote:
Original post by Spoonbender
There's a MSDN library download for SP1, so I assume that includes the TR1 stuff.

Also, here and here for C++ specific fixes and improvements. There are a few things.


Thanks for the links, it looks very tempting.

May wait a while though to see if anybody has problems with the installer :)


The installer worked fine for me.... It did take over 2 hours to install (with the 500kb installer, which may have been a bad move), but isn't that to be expected? This is Visual Studio we're talking about.
It installed without errors though.

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Antheus    2409
Quote:
Original post by joe1024
Quote:
Original post by Antheus
Or, get a 4 gig RAM, quad core. They probably cost less than a full copy of VS.

Correct me if I`m wrong, OK ?
I`d have to upgrade my PC - i.e buy new MB+CPU+RAM+Case+HDD for about 500 EUR,


But that's less than a week's earning for junior programmer.

Quote:
then risk loosing all SW that I already have installed (or I could BUY ANOTHER drive for a backup if sth goes wrong and Windows doesn`t recover from new MB (which happenned to me quite few times)).


Not a problem. The OS uses automated or imaged install, your data is stored in several off-site repositories already, and your application installs are on a networked file server, preferably with custom MSI. Or, in ideal case, there's admin team that delivers your configured and ready installation.

Quote:
Of course, add 1-2 weekends for reinstall of all apps.
Even without image, it takes about 2 hours to install dozen or so apps. Last I encountered a 2+ hour install was with Corel Draw under Windows 95, mostly due to swapping through its 30 floppy disks.


One thing to keep in mind is that these tools, especially those above Express, are intended for professionals, who make their living off software development. If anything, people were amazed that Microsoft offers such tools for free.

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Spoonbender    1258
Quote:
Original post by Antheus
Quote:
Of course, add 1-2 weekends for reinstall of all apps.
Even without image, it takes about 2 hours to install dozen or so apps. Last I encountered a 2+ hour install was with Corel Draw under Windows 95, mostly due to swapping through its 30 floppy disks.

Ah, so you haven't installed 2k8 SP1 yet, I assume? [lol]

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Extrarius    1412
Quote:
Original post by joe1024
[...]Then I`d have to fork out >300 EUR for VS2008 so that I could do what I can do now with VS6.[...]
Buying VS2008 would give you a huge number of new features over VS6, like the ability to program in C++.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like VS2005 or VS2008 either (the new GUIs make them difficult for me to use), but VS6 is not an alternative.

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joe1024    100
I think we need to differentiate the usage of VS:
1. At work we use all of them (depending on the project) - from VC6, through VS2k3, VS2k5 and today we`ve received VS2k8. I couldn`t care less if it`s slow at work, since that`s what I`m being paid for. Everybody knows that and is OK with it. So, no big deal. I know what the IDE offers compared to VC6, but again, no big deal - since it`s mostly mouse-oriented, which is sth I hate - if I`m programming, mouse shouldn`t be needed at all. Yeah, it`s nice that I don`t have to add the watch each time I need to go deeper in some class, since newer VSs can do that by pointing the mouse over the variable, but by the time I grab the mouse, wait for it, and start clicking deeper, I`d already have that added into Watch Window under VC6. So, the biggest IDE advantage is actually slowing you down.

2. At home, the situation rapidly changes. I don`t want to loose the time if I don`t have to, especially for something that is easily replaced - just load the project through different icon (VC6 instead of VS2k5).
If it means I have to sacrifice purity of C++, so be it, not a big deal. I`ve grown up from the "look, teh code of mine is soooo c++++ish". Is it object-oriented ? Yes. Is it easy to maintain and refactor ? Yes. Does it work ? Sure, it does ! Was there a situation when I had to forget implementation of the game/engine feature due to VC6 being non-conformant ? Of course not ! C++ is really rich language allowing you to take either of many avaialable routes.

So, why should I take a loan to buy a new PC and new VS if it doesn`t add any meaningful value to my development ?

If there are some REAL values in newer VS, please, tell me, but so far, during last 4 yrs, each time I ask this question about comparison I get just this vague - "non-conformant,buggy C++" argument.




Antheus : 500 EUR might be less than a week`s worth of salary, but only in some countries of Europe, definitely not in mine. 500 EUR cash, on the other hand, is a lot of money to dump on something that doesn`t bring you any meaningful value. Especially, if your monthly budget is tense as it is. If I lived in US, I`d be earning somewhere between 80k-120k USD per year with my current position. Sure, then those 300 USD would be nothing. But I don`t live and earn money there.

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joe1024    100
funny, I just got the rating down about 100 points (in less than 5 minutes of writing previous post). Somebody with really high rating didn`t like I`m not in extasy about new VS.

Now, that`s what I call stupid and childlish
If it makes you feel better, go ahead, but ehmmm....

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