Way too long of a thread, not going to read it all.

Put simply, there are thousands of people like you who all think they have got the greatest idea since sliced bread.

So to begin with, you just blend in with the noise. Why would anyone choose your idea as opposed to the thousands of other people who would probably even be willing to pay to have someone make their own idea.

Finally, game design isn't really about the idea or story. Game design is about realizing how to make things fun. You can talk all you want about your incredible plot and setting but plot doesn't make a game. The truth is most "great" ideas are actually so full of holes they wouldn't even be useful as a sieve. Just take a look at any games "suggestion" thread.
Well over 99% of the ideas are novelties that sound somewhat cool but wouldn't be able to stand up to a light breeze.

Frankly, if you cannot skim through the average games suggestion thread and realize why game studios don't pick people off the street to design games, you are in no position to design one yourself.



Game studios are not going to throw millions of dollars away on some kids crappy dream game idea.

Quote:Original post by Kaze
I really think you should just start writing novels instead of trying to make games. You clearly have a lot more ideas for story than gameplay and I doubt a game would make a better medium without turning gameplay into boring grind with story doled out one bit at a time as a reward.

The story is intricately wound in with the gameplay. ;) The gameplay ideas I gave you were just a few examples of possibilities.

Quote:Original post by Tom Sloper
Noz wrote:
>I am seriously considering trying to make a mod about this idea, but that still requires much searching and enquiry to ascertain its practicality and feasibility.

Why is the word "but" in that sentence? Is this your way of saying "but it's too hard"? Another interpretation of "but it's too hard" is "but I'm too lazy." You should just do that feasibility study if you're so passionate about your game, and if it's not feasible scale it down.

You obviously aren’t familiar with the difficulties of creating a decent singleplayer mod in our community.

Quote:Original post by Tom Sloper
And why are you telling us all this? Just because some have said "all you've got is story, what's the game?" If you have a game in your head, you should put it on paper. We don't need those details to answer your question.

I got the impression people wanted a bit more detail, and really that I was just a hair brained madman who has no idea what gameplay is! The game in my head is on paper, and by the time I have finished will at least have filled the blank book I bought for the purpose.

Quote:Original post by r691175002
Way too long of a thread, not going to read it all.

Put simply, there are thousands of people like you who all think they have got the greatest idea since sliced bread.

You cannot properly understand my thoughts unless you make the effort to read as much of the thread as possible. I never said my idea was the ‘greatest since sliced bread’, just that it was good (I think) and that it resides in a part of the gaming market that seems rather underdeveloped.

Quote:Original post by r691175002
So to begin with, you just blend in with the noise. Why would anyone choose your idea as opposed to the thousands of other people who would probably even be willing to pay to have someone make their own idea.

Believe me, if I had that much money I would have already completely funded and made he game by now. :P

Quote:Original post by r691175002
Finally, game design isn't really about the idea or story. Game design is about realizing how to make things fun. You can talk all you want about your incredible plot and setting but plot doesn't make a game. The truth is most "great" ideas are actually so full of holes they wouldn't even be useful as a sieve. Just take a look at any games "suggestion" thread.

Personally I disagree with that, I believe story is an extremely important aspect of the gameplay as a whole. The gameplay could be absolutely rubbish, but if it has a good story people will still play it, Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness is an example I believe.

Many older games also have excellent stories, which is part of the reason why a lot have become legendary. It appears that these newfangled ‘next-gen’ titles prefer to concentrate more on ‘pretty colours and flashing lights’ than a good old ripping yarn. As someone who appreciates a bit of effort being put into a games story line, I find this attitude most disappointing.

Take the entire Tomb Raider series for example. The gameplay is nothing new, its mostly the same across the games, with tweaks and upgrades along the way, but in general the same formula. It’s the story that makes them special to a lot of people.

You know what all the buzz on the forums for TR: Underworld is about at the moment? Story. Only a few posts actually seem to have talked about gameplay (like the new ‘sonar ping’ device). It is the story that everyone wants to know, the theories and spoilers are flying around all over the place.

More games that create that kind of a buzz, and less games that are mindless shoot-em-ups would be a good thing.

Quote:Original post by r691175002Game studios are not going to throw millions of dollars away on some kids crappy dream game idea.

Yeah, games studios throw millions of dollars away on some executives crappy dream game idea instead.

Look, I know I came here in a bit of a ranting mood, but I believe I explained my feelings and state of mind clearly enough. Although there have indeed been some very helpful and informative posts by helpful and informative people, I was rather hoping that people like you who had most likely been in my position and felt the same way at one time would at least be a little more encouraging.

Most people however have done little to dispel my impression that the games industry is very elitist, and once you get into the ‘club’ you rise above the crowd of ordinary gamers from whence you came. Believe it or not, just because you haven’t worked for years at a games studio or haven’t made an uber-mod doesn’t mean that some ordinary folk do actually have the talent to be a game director. I know personally many people who are better at what they do than the people who made the actual game.

Quote:Original post by Nozyspy

Quote:Original post by Tom Sloper
Noz wrote:
>I am seriously considering trying to make a mod about this idea, but that still requires much searching and enquiry to ascertain its practicality and feasibility.

Why is the word "but" in that sentence? Is this your way of saying "but it's too hard"? Another interpretation of "but it's too hard" is "but I'm too lazy." You should just do that feasibility study if you're so passionate about your game, and if it's not feasible scale it down.

You obviously aren’t familiar with the difficulties of creating a decent singleplayer mod in our community.

He isn't talking about making a mod. He's talking about doing the feasibility and practicality study.

Quote:Personally I disagree with that, I believe story is an extremely important aspect of the gameplay as a whole. The gameplay could be absolutely rubbish, but if it has a good story people will still play it, Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness is an example I believe.

You mean the game that was a relative commercial failure, leading to Eidos shifting Tomb Raider development to a different studio?

Quote:You know what all the buzz on the forums for TR: Underworld is about at the moment? Story. Only a few posts actually seem to have talked about gameplay (like the new ‘sonar ping’ device). It is the story that everyone wants to know, the theories and spoilers are flying around all over the place.

Guess what... if you go to the FIFA '09 forums, you'll find them all talking about gameplay, and not about story! Funny, that. You're looking at a niche and expecting to generalise from that, but it doesn't work that way.

Quote:I was rather hoping that people like you who had most likely been in my position and felt the same way at one time would at least be a little more encouraging.

Unfortunately there is nothing to encourage. Put in the work, make the game yourself. Or work through the industry and hope you get a shot. That's all we can offer you.

Quote:Most people however have done little to dispel my impression that the games industry is very elitist, and once you get into the ‘club’ you rise above the crowd of ordinary gamers from whence you came.

That's the way any industry works, whether artistic or not. Why can't Average Joe design his own cellphone? Make his own skyscraper? Fly a fighter plane? Have his own operating system? The answer in all cases is that you can go one of three routes: 1 - do it all yourself, 2 - pay others to do it, 3 - work your way up to be in charge of a team that does it. This isn't about games. This is about life.

Quote:Believe it or not, just because you haven’t worked for years at a games studio or haven’t made an uber-mod doesn’t mean that some ordinary folk do actually have the talent to be a game director. I know personally many people who are better at what they do than the people who made the actual game.

In your opinion. It's very easy to pick out a piece of work done by someone working on a mod team and compare it to something in a game, and say "hey, this is better than the 'real' one." Yet that misses so many important points, such as:
- the professional was working to a deadline, probably meaning that they had less time to dedicate to any individual item than the modder did. They have also had to generate all sorts of boring assets in that timespan which the modder can take for granted.
- the modder has a fixed target, in that the game is released and the specs are known. The professional often has to spend time reworking assets as the engine changes during development.
- the modder often has better tools, because the bespoke tools that they get to use are often what the professional only had at the end of the project, having had to contend with bugs and defects in those tools beforehand.
- the modder is targetting a higher minimum PC specification than the professional. Not only is their development PC likely to be faster (since it is months or years after the pro worked on the game), but they are not constrained to certain budgets (such as texture memory) or by other constraints (eg. execution speed) by a marketing department keen to hit as low a spec as possible.

In other words, it is rarely a fair comparison. But yes, some artists, coders, designers are slightly better than some of their commercial counterparts. So? Let them apply for the jobs, or work on indie games, and they'll do fine.

Quote:Original post by Nozyspy

Quote:Original post by Kaze
I really think you should just start writing novels instead of trying to make games. You clearly have a lot more ideas for story than gameplay and I doubt a game would make a better medium without turning gameplay into boring grind with story doled out one bit at a time as a reward.

The story is intricately wound in with the gameplay. ;) The gameplay ideas I gave you were just a few examples of possibilities.

I'm not sure how to put this politely buy I disagree. It seems like you just pasted your story onto a generic 3rd person adventure game. All the gameplay you listed has been done before in games with varying stories.

Quote:Original post by Nozyspy[/i
Most people however have done little to dispel my impression that the games industry is very elitist, and once you get into the ‘club’ you rise above the crowd of ordinary gamers from whence you came. Believe it or not, just because you haven’t worked for years at a games studio or haven’t made an uber-mod doesn’t mean that some ordinary folk do actually have the talent to be a game director. I know personally many people who are better at what they do than the people who made the actual game.

But you still don't seem to understand that your not the only one who's played a ton of games and believes they have a amazing game idea that would make millions if only someone would make it. Its not elitism that with a large number of choices the industry chooses the people who are willing to put in the effort to learns a skill and gain experience in the industry.

Finally its easy to think up a game idea but in real life you have to deal with time and cost constrains, technical limitations and marketing.

Maybe reading this article which has just been published on gamasutra will enlighten why a nobody with no experiance and just ideas won't get hired.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20373

Quote:Most people however have done little to dispel my impression that the games industry is very elitist, and once you get into the ‘club’ you rise above the crowd of ordinary gamers from whence you came. Believe it or not, just because you haven’t worked for years at a games studio or haven’t made an uber-mod doesn’t mean that some ordinary folk do actually have the talent to be a game director. I know personally many people who are better at what they do than the people who made the actual game.

What's elitist about wanting to hire those who have relevant experience? Is it elitist that no one will let you run a major bank? Direct the next big Hollywood movie?

It's no different than any other industry. Intel isn't going to listen to you if you say you have a good idea for a new CPU. Ford isn't going to listen to you if you have an idea for better cars. Spielberg isn't going to listen to you if you tell him you've got an idea for a movie. That's not elitism, it's simply protecting their investment. They've got a lot of money at stake, and face it, it's risky to gamble it all on an unknown. If you want to become more than an unknown, then it's up to you. Don't blame anyone else for not falling at your feet at the mere mention that you have an idea. If no one are sufficiently impressed to hire you, you haven't sold your idea well enough. Or, possibly, the idea isn't good enough to be worth the trouble.

But let's turn your question upside down. Why should a studio head listen to you? Why should they give you 5 minutes of your time? How do they know that your ideas are so far ahead of everyone else's? There are over 6 billion people on this planet. All of them have ideas. Do you expect every single one of them to be given 5 minutes every time they get a new idea? Of course not.

You assume that your ideas are a hot commodity. They might be, but it is doubtful, because there are an awful lot of ideas in this world. But even if they are, so what? Don't expect people to come looking for them. you are going to have to convince people that your ideas are 1) better than theirs, and 2) so *vastly* better that it justifies hiring you, paying your wages, just for the sake of this idea. What else can you do? What else do you have to bring to the table?