Would you consider Thief II an RPG?
Author
It had RPG elements - Compelling storylines, (scripted) NPC interaction, character development in the form of item purchases - and certainly FPS elements - first person view, action-oriented combat. Would you say that it falls under the RPG category? What are the defining aspects that make it an RPG, or a non-RPG, in your opinion?
No I do not agree that it was an RPG and many others wouldn''t too. An RPG is more in depth in many ways. Firstly, most RPGs have a level system which determines how powerful your character(s) are. Usually, these is used in conjunction with a statistics system.
Also, character development in the form of item purchases just doesn''t make it an RPG. Take for example Diablo 1/2. They are not RPGs but they have all the above qualities. There are more to it then just that.
It is hard to define the aspects of an RPG, but the feel of the game surely is one, for Diablo sure doesn''t feel like one. One reason was probably there wasn''t enough NPC interaction.
Also, character development in the form of item purchases just doesn''t make it an RPG. Take for example Diablo 1/2. They are not RPGs but they have all the above qualities. There are more to it then just that.
It is hard to define the aspects of an RPG, but the feel of the game surely is one, for Diablo sure doesn''t feel like one. One reason was probably there wasn''t enough NPC interaction.
Carnivorous Duck, I also do not consider Thief an cRPG game. It''s as cRPG as Diablo is, and maybe even less.
Darkor, you don''t really need leveling system to have a cRPG, IMO. But I do agree that interaction, not only with the NPCs, but with the game world as a whole, is one of the most important things. Neither Thief, nor Diablo had a decent interaction level.
Maybe there should be a topic "Define cRPGs" after all.
Boby Dimitrov
boby@azholding.com
Darkor, you don''t really need leveling system to have a cRPG, IMO. But I do agree that interaction, not only with the NPCs, but with the game world as a whole, is one of the most important things. Neither Thief, nor Diablo had a decent interaction level.
Maybe there should be a topic "Define cRPGs" after all.
Boby Dimitrov
boby@azholding.com
Aaargh! No! No! Not another ''What is an RPG?'' thread! Because that is what this will surely degenerate into.
The RPG ''category'' doesn''t exist. It''s too fuzzy a term, loaded with many preconceptions, misconceptions, and connotations. Does it mean stats based games, in the same vein as the original Dungeons and Dragons rules? Does it relate to the later tabletop games, with an emphasis on ''acting a part'', or ''staying in character''? Or to self-professed computer ''role-playing games'' which are sometimes one, sometimes the other...
Why do we care what category a game falls into? Why not evaluate the features that it contains, rather than worry about slapping a label on the composite of those features? Leave that until you need to market it.
To be annoying: Thief is an RPG. It''s a game, and you play a role (Garrett, the thief.) Thief is a FPS. It''s from the first person perspective, and you shoot things. Thief is an RTS. It''s played in real time, and involves a lot of strategy.
Who cares?
Kylotan, slightly annoyed that we get too many threads like this.
The RPG ''category'' doesn''t exist. It''s too fuzzy a term, loaded with many preconceptions, misconceptions, and connotations. Does it mean stats based games, in the same vein as the original Dungeons and Dragons rules? Does it relate to the later tabletop games, with an emphasis on ''acting a part'', or ''staying in character''? Or to self-professed computer ''role-playing games'' which are sometimes one, sometimes the other...
Why do we care what category a game falls into? Why not evaluate the features that it contains, rather than worry about slapping a label on the composite of those features? Leave that until you need to market it.
To be annoying: Thief is an RPG. It''s a game, and you play a role (Garrett, the thief.) Thief is a FPS. It''s from the first person perspective, and you shoot things. Thief is an RTS. It''s played in real time, and involves a lot of strategy.
Who cares?
Kylotan, slightly annoyed that we get too many threads like this.
I''m with Kylotan on this one. There is no one true definition of RPG, so there''s no way you could answer the question. But I''d say that at the very least, very few people who bought Thief did so because they thought it would have roleplaying elements...
And I think that goes some way to answering the question.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.
And I think that goes some way to answering the question.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.
Thief was definitely an RPG because it took place in medieval times. Just kidding. I just had to say that to upset Wavinator 
I'm 100% with Kylotan on this as well, but I have to say that Thief falls into my personal definition of an RPG better than any other game. This is because it allows you to play a role and truly act within that role. And it allows for the freedom to not act within that role too. This allows player choice and game elements that reward playing within a role.
But I agree w/ Kylotan overall. I'm so tired of these discussions.
...A CRPG in development...
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Edited by - Nazrix on June 12, 2001 11:56:53 AM
I'm 100% with Kylotan on this as well, but I have to say that Thief falls into my personal definition of an RPG better than any other game. This is because it allows you to play a role and truly act within that role. And it allows for the freedom to not act within that role too. This allows player choice and game elements that reward playing within a role.
But I agree w/ Kylotan overall. I'm so tired of these discussions.
...A CRPG in development...
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Edited by - Nazrix on June 12, 2001 11:56:53 AM
Nazrix, Kylotan, don''t you sometimes get the impression that we''re getting old?
I mean, all we''re doing lately is posting about how we''re "tired" of certain discussions, hehehe...
Startrek 25, "So very tired".
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.
I mean, all we''re doing lately is posting about how we''re "tired" of certain discussions, hehehe...
Startrek 25, "So very tired".
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.
Yeah, I know what you mean, MKV. All we do now is say, "We had a discussion about that in the following link:"
...A CRPG in development...
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Edited by - Nazrix on June 12, 2001 1:07:11 PM
...A CRPG in development...
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.
Edited by - Nazrix on June 12, 2001 1:07:11 PM
I guess you should start a section in GameDev that publishes articles from conclusions that were made here in the forums. Therefore if someone asks about it you just tell them where they can find info about it. And sometimes newbies would just go to that articles section before trying to discuss here in the forums.
Now you just have to find someone who would like to make a smaller version of the RPG levels thread.
Dark Era: Concealed Evil.
The next generation of online gaming.
By Drakonix Studios
Now you just have to find someone who would like to make a smaller version of the RPG levels thread.
Dark Era: Concealed Evil.
The next generation of online gaming.
By Drakonix Studios
quote:Original post by Nazrix
Thief was definitely an RPG because it took place in medieval times. Just kidding. I just had to say that to upset Wavinator
DOH!!!! I heard that!!!!!
quote:
I''m 100% with Kylotan on this as well, but I have to say that Thief falls into my personal definition of an RPG better than any other game. This is because it allows you to play a role and truly act within that role. And it allows for the freedom to not act within that role too. This allows player choice and game elements that reward playing within a role.
It''s interesting to see at what point a cRPG crosses the line and becomes a simulator. Thief to me was almost a "Thief Simulator," which was really cool. It didn''t have the freedom that I''ve come to expect in a cRPG, but it certainly put you in a role.
quote:
But I agree w/ Kylotan overall. I''m so tired of these discussions.
LOL! Time to break out the walkers and Geritol, guys!
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
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