You might want to look into the Harvest Moon games - they're basically a farm-em-up, but with lots RPG elements (like improved tools, seeds, machinery, animals, soil, etc. etc.). It only ever gives limited feedback, for example there's only two grades of seeds displayed to the user - average and good. But there's a lot of numbers and stats going on under the hood.
Personally I just got frustrated and gave up, as it turns the whole thing into a big guessing game where it takes a lot of gameplay time and dedication to prove or disprove even the simplest of guesses about how things work. But if you look on gamefaqs it's obvious that some people really like the "big guessing game" style of play and spend ages figuring out the exact numerical effects of each different action.
There's probably a much more interesting middle ground to be found somewhere. Perhaps analog gauges to display stats (like colours, icons or adjectives) so you can quickly see how good or bad something is, but you'd actually have to use it for at least a while before you got a feel for *exactly* how good it was compared to other similar items.
Hidden stats
Personally, I think stat-hiding is integral in order to immerse yourself in the game fiction, which is my personal Holy Grail when developing my game. I am developing my own game, Odyssey, built around obscuring and hiding statistics in different fashions.
Many other games have succeeded, either by displaying bars in a progress bar, or displaying emotion/reaction in the virtual avatar. Fable did this to some extent based on how your character ate, how old he got, or how magically attuned he became.
If explored enough (e.g. game mechanics designed to convert statistics to visual cues or some form of implementation), I think a game could really pull off better immersion. Not to mention, pull the carpet out from under the feet of min/maxer power-gamers and have them rethink the way they play games.
Many other games have succeeded, either by displaying bars in a progress bar, or displaying emotion/reaction in the virtual avatar. Fable did this to some extent based on how your character ate, how old he got, or how magically attuned he became.
If explored enough (e.g. game mechanics designed to convert statistics to visual cues or some form of implementation), I think a game could really pull off better immersion. Not to mention, pull the carpet out from under the feet of min/maxer power-gamers and have them rethink the way they play games.
Author
I'm starting to wonder if there's actually any use at all in displaying the numbers. The numbers don't actually represent anything. The only way to establish some meaning with them is to play test. Does a strength of 31 cause the hay-maker to knock out imps? There's only one way to find out. By the time you find out, you don't need the number anymore. Was the number ever actually useful?
I don't think min/maxers would suffer all that much. The space between current skill values and absolute perfection will be difficult to determine. That should only make their efforts more interesting. A real human in training faces the same issues. There's no line drawn that says "you can't get better than this". At some point, you just have to say "that's enough", and work on another skill. Maybe later, you'll find reasons to push it farther.
If the game alerts the player each time they progress in a skill, or the player directly spends experience to improve it, and players can literally see how their improved skills are changing the game, there's just not much being lost at all.
[Edited by - Kest on October 14, 2008 1:25:26 PM]
Quote:Original post by DarkHorizon
If explored enough (e.g. game mechanics designed to convert statistics to visual cues or some form of implementation), I think a game could really pull off better immersion. Not to mention, pull the carpet out from under the feet of min/maxer power-gamers and have them rethink the way they play games.
I don't think min/maxers would suffer all that much. The space between current skill values and absolute perfection will be difficult to determine. That should only make their efforts more interesting. A real human in training faces the same issues. There's no line drawn that says "you can't get better than this". At some point, you just have to say "that's enough", and work on another skill. Maybe later, you'll find reasons to push it farther.
If the game alerts the player each time they progress in a skill, or the player directly spends experience to improve it, and players can literally see how their improved skills are changing the game, there's just not much being lost at all.
[Edited by - Kest on October 14, 2008 1:25:26 PM]
Quote:Original post by DarkHorizon
Not to mention, pull the carpet out from under the feet of min/maxer power-gamers and have them rethink the way they play games.
Why would you want to do that?
The powerbuilding metagame is pretty much the only competitive element in a single player RPG. Is it worth sacrificing that and all the player competition and mindshare that comes with it?
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