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bazso

what does it take to make a online game?

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shwasasin    482
You'll need to be more specific as to what type of online game you're trying to make. Each game is different and requires different tools, skills, software, people, etc...An online Tetris game could be made by one person fairly quickly, but a World of Warcraft-killer MMO is a huge task that would take one person years (10?), or a small army (25-50 people) a couple years.

What are you trying to make?

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bazso    100
i am trying to make a world war 2 flight simulator a navel simulator and a ground simulator such as infantry tanks artillery trucks all into one world.

i need to know for what it is i am wanting to do to make a proper game and what is all involved in accomplishing my goal.

i also did try a dev team and they were taking out off of the focus and making it into something else so i am in this by my self the min i start hiring people they are going to start coming up with ideas and take it way off of the focus and try and see what they can do to get money out of it.

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shwasasin    482
Quote:
Original post by bazso
i am trying to make a world war 2 flight simulator a navel simulator and a ground simulator such as infantry tanks artillery trucks all into one world.

i need to know for what it is i am wanting to do to make a proper game and what is all involved in accomplishing my goal.


Okay well that information helps a bit. :) Now, are you making all three games at once? Are they three separate simulations in one game or three separate games altogether?

By the sounds of your original question I would venture to say you've never made a game before, is this correct? It sounds like you have all the right tools, but do you know how to use them, properly?

Making a game is a fair amount of work (when you know how to use the tools) and even more difficult (and perhaps frustrating) when trying to learn the tools as well as develop at the same time. Have you ever made a game before? If not, might I suggest trying to make something like an online 3D Tetris game to get your feet wet before trying to jump head-first into a big project and getting frustrated with all the complexities (and potentially giving up after spending so much time on nothing)?

Anyways, hope my answer helps and good luck with the project.

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bazso    100
its going to be like 3 games in one and to be honest let me know if i am crazy for saying this i have this little voice that is so loud right now it does not give me any room to give up its a very strong drive that i have.

yes you are correct i have not made a game before my gaming engine is panda 3d with along with the engine i got to learn how to program in python once i hope i can do it fairly well under stand how it is done.

then i can expand on my game right now the most important thing for me is content i want to give my hopefully to be player base a verity to play with i do this not for the money but because i am a gamer my self and just want to make a game that makes sense and it is done properly.


so that's all of what i have listed in my first post of all i am needing the rest comes down the programing?

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Winegums    286
Quote:
Original post by bazso
i got my 3d modeler texturer animator game engine with programing language what else am i missing?


3d modeler/texturer/animator, i take it these are the art asset development tools?

so you have a graphics engine and a language it runs in. For a full game (which is what it sounds like you want to make), you'll also need...

- Some sort of archietecture plan/game engine. You've got a 3d engine, but how will audio/AI/Physics/Networking/Game logic interface with each other and the graphics engine? AFAIK panda is just a rendering engine? similar to OGRE?

- The aforementioned networking/audio/ai/physics/game logic code (and thus, appropriate level of knowledge as to how to develop these components). Even if you use existing engines/frameworks for these components, you still need to integrate them

- Developed art resources


I strongly advise building a few smaller games first. Make sure you understand the fundimentals of software design and development, or your game will fall on it's backside very quickly due to bad code organisation and structure.

Build up to your dream super fantastical online game...start with pong!

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Captain P    1092
Quote:
Original post by Winegums
I strongly advise building a few smaller games first. Make sure you understand the fundimentals of software design and development, or your game will fall on it's backside very quickly due to bad code organisation and structure.

Build up to your dream super fantastical online game...start with pong!

Quoted for emphasis.

You're looking to build a skyscraper. Not the tallest in the world, but still a pretty decent one. You've got a nice little toolbox with you, but if you still need to figure out how that saw applies to actual construction work, then you're better off building a few wooden shacks first. After the shacks, try building a house. Then a multi-floor apartment.


I've created levels for 8+ years. Just for fun, in my spare time. The first few years were merely experimenting - trying to get things to work, exploring limits, and so on. Only later did I build some actually playable levels. By the end of my level-design 'career', I had a pretty solid workflow that enabled me to create levels that would almost certainly be fun to play (I planned in a lot of time for playtesting and tweaking). I wasn't capable of doing that when I just started out, even though I had access to the exact same tools and resources.


So yeah, I'd say that what you're missing is experience.

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Codeka    1239
Quote:
Original post by bazso
the min i start hiring people they are going to start coming up with ideas and take it way off of the focus


That's the trouble working with humans, they have minds of their own.

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swiftcoder    18426
Quote:
Original post by Winegums
- Some sort of archietecture plan/game engine. You've got a 3d engine, but how will audio/AI/Physics/Networking/Game logic interface with each other and the graphics engine? AFAIK panda is just a rendering engine? similar to OGRE?
\offtopic: Panda has fairly complete audio (on top of FMOD/OpenAL), physics (built-in or ODE integration) and networking (low-level streams or high-level object replication), in addition to a very nice rendering engine (shader generation in particular), and a decent set of performance and debugging tools.

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Tom Sloper    16040
Quote:
Original post by bazso
the min i start hiring people they are going to start coming up with ideas and take it way off of the focus and try and see what they can do to get money out of it.

"Hiring" people means you are paying them money. As long as you're paying a game developer good money, they'll make whatever you tell them to make. You just need two things:
1. A lot of money
2. A complete GDD
Then just find a developer and off you go.

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bazso    100
ok first of all ty everyone for telling me your thoughts your help here has been very invaluable yes i do plan to start out small i am not planing on taking everything on at once i would get massively confused.

my other current goals at this point in time besides getting content made is also to learn python so that i can get a feel for the programing habits and then learn how it is done with the panda 3d game engine.

i have been told by other sources that the python language was more forgiving then most and your work would shorten to a degree also i know this may have no bearing on this chat.

but i thought i would throw this in please forgive me if most to all of you know this already the soon to be mmorpg game stargate worlds uses the big world technology gaming engine that engine uses the python coding as well as C/C++ coding.

here is a link to what one of my sources say its abilities is i am sure you all have a way of finding out more about its abilities if you do find such info i beg any of you to tell me PLEASE.

http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=320#reviews

also here is 2 links to what the engine i am going with about its abilities

http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=95#reviews

http://panda3d.org/features.php

from what i have heard they are improving on it when they can i also found out a few weeks ago i think i was reading that someone was posting that 2nd link i gave you all that page needs to be updated with new info about panda's features.

i have also been told that Python is the way of things now not in massive numbers for gaming engines nor is it very popular yet but i been told its getting there i yield to any of you feel other wise.

also please tell me if this engine covers a lot but if i am still missing certain abilities please let me know!!!

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bazso    100
i am 28 years old

my level of education is high school completed the 12th grade and gradated in 2000 but not through normal means

my job is a labour i work with temporary employment services why is because money comes more often

may i ask why this is a factor in discussion?

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Tom Sloper    16040
Because the answer that's suitable for a child is different from the answer that's suitable for a grownup.
Because the answer that's suitable for someone who's in a position to start a career preparation with college is different from the answer that's suitable for someone who isn't.
Because the answer that's suitable for someone in a career that's well suited for a career switch into games is different from the answer that's suitable for someone who isn't.

So, before you mentioned that you'd hired people but they went off on their own tangent instead of adhering to your design. Were you really paying those people? Or were you just using the word "hired" in some other way?

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shwasasin    482
Quote:
Original post by bazso
i am 28 years old

my level of education is high school completed the 12th grade and gradated in 2000 but not through normal means

my job is a labour i work with temporary employment services why is because money comes more often

may i ask why this is a factor in discussion?


Although it is highly possible that you could create this game, I think everyone is just trying to point out that the odds are stacked highly against you. Programming is not simply typing a couple keywords into you're computer and your game magically appears. Furthermore to develop 3 separate simulation systems in one game, that's an MMO, requires a lot of time and skill. Look at games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War, etc...They all use the Unreal Engine, but each of those games still took 1.5+ years to make, with fairly sizable teams that are highly trained. Even with an using an established game engine, you still have to write a lengthy amount of code on your own. When there's only a few people (in your case one), you're fixing all the bugs yourself, and you have to be a jack of all trades (audio, ai, physics, graphics, input, gameplay, etc...). On larger game teams, there's people dedicated to each one of those programming sections.

I'm not saying you can't achieve this, in time, but your first ventures in programming is pretty much throw-away source code. Even when you do learn a language, that doesn't teach you about good software design practices, because those aren't enforced by the language itself. You could spend hours, weeks or even months writing something without realizing how fundamentally flawed it is when you start getting people playing the game. Then what?

And what about the business side of things? Do you have any business experience? If you're going to sell this game, how will you setup the payment system? Have you purchased *ALL* the software you're using. It's sort of hypocritical of you not to. Depending on what software/assets you're using this could cost a ton of money (i.e. tens of thousands). How will you deal with tech support, compatibility problems, marketing, etc...The list of things to think about could go on and on. There are still single-man/small indie game companies in the world, but generally they've got some sort of relevant experience (playing and complaining about video games does not constitute as relevant development experience) and/or an education in a relevant field (CompSci, Art, Writing, Audio Engineering, to name a few degrees).

I think it's cool that you want to create this huge game and hire employees, but video games are a business and must be treated that way. I think you should take some Computer/Business related classes at a local community college before trying to make such a large project, otherwise you're doomed to failure.

Just my two cents though. Good luck with the project and keep us posted.

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bazso    100
nice to know just like dev master.net that arrognace runs freely here as well to also nice to know that we have went off of topic all i was asking was what is needed to make a online game.

and i was expecting a list not questions to insult my intelligence to be told what i need or should be doing you all most think i don't know what i am doing all i was just wanting was a list.

and yes i do know how much it would take to code and how to learn how to do it correctly that's why i am going with python i am so glad it is a very forgiving code.

then any other programming language once i learn how to do it my work load will not be so long.

its to bad that here and dev master i felt had a lot of good potential for helping newbies get a under standing of what is needed to make a game and what all is involved.

i came here looking for advice to get me on my way and instead it is completely the opposite this and like dev master is suppose to be a place to help people not to down grade them or to insult them.

so much for a fair and under standing community once more i got to be a super high intelligent thinker looks like i am truly on my own you real helpful

this is pointed more towards Tom Sloper

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swiftcoder    18426
Quote:
Original post by bazso
its to bad that here and dev master i felt had a lot of good potential for helping newbies get a under standing of what is needed to make a game and what all is involved.
This is exactly what the previous poster gave you: an honest (even optimistic) appraisal of the requirements to develop your game.

Quote:
i came here looking for advice to get me on my way and instead it is completely the opposite this and like dev master is suppose to be a place to help people not to down grade them or to insult them.
No one has insulted you, in the slightest. I have been programming for 10 years, am pursuing a Masters in Computer Science, have several small games under my belt - and I am fully aware that I have at most 1/4 of the skills I would need in order to produce a commercial MMO, and even if I had all those skills it would take me (one person) a minimum of 5-10 years to have something resembling a commercial MMO.

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Evil Steve    2017
Quote:
Original post by bazso
nice to know just like dev master.net that arrognace runs freely here as well to also nice to know that we have went off of topic all i was asking was what is needed to make a online game.

and i was expecting a list not questions to insult my intelligence to be told what i need or should be doing you all most think i don't know what i am doing all i was just wanting was a list.

and yes i do know how much it would take to code and how to learn how to do it correctly that's why i am going with python i am so glad it is a very forgiving code.

then any other programming language once i learn how to do it my work load will not be so long.

its to bad that here and dev master i felt had a lot of good potential for helping newbies get a under standing of what is needed to make a game and what all is involved.

i came here looking for advice to get me on my way and instead it is completely the opposite this and like dev master is suppose to be a place to help people not to down grade them or to insult them.

so much for a fair and under standing community once more i got to be a super high intelligent thinker looks like i am truly on my own you real helpful

this is pointed more towards Tom Sloper
At what point were we arrogant or insulting your intelligence? You're asking how to do something very difficult, we're trying to stop you wasting your time doing something that you're ultimately very likely to fail at.

You're not going to get anywhere if you're so mentally fragile that people asking simple questions causes you to complain that we're insulting you.

You can bitch and moan as much as you like, it's not going to instantly give you 10 years programming experience and make it possible for you to create an online game. There's a very good reason that games have budgets of millions of dollars and teams of tens of experienced people.

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oler1s    585
Quote:
Bazzo:
and yes i do know how much it would take to code and how to learn how to do it correctly that's why i am going with python i am so glad it is a very forgiving code.
Umm..in what sense do you use the word forgiving?

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Antheus    2409
Quote:
Original post by bazso

nice to know just like dev master.net that arrognace runs freely here as well to also nice to know that we have went off of topic all i was asking was what is needed to make a online game


"Brick walls are there for a reason. They let us prove how badly we want things."

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mikeman    2942
Quote:
Original post by bazso
i got my 3d modeler texturer animator game engine with programing language what else am i missing?


No less than 3-4 years of *intense* studying and practicing, working with various projects that range from tiny to small to medium size(an MMO is not such a project).

Then you can maybe start thinking about it.

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