Fullsail is certainly better than places like Devry or ITT or any of those other places that advertise on TV, but they're not great by any stretch in my opinion. I have major issues with their curriculum -- specifically that it does not seem to cover enough advanced math, physics, or CS fundamentals. Their "accelerated program", in my opinion, is about 2 years of leaning (compared to my experience at Digipen) hyped as 4, but taught in 3 so that they can call it "accelerated" whilst also managing to charge you an additional year's worth of tuition. Another red flag, for me, is that they teach classes on both OpenGL *and* Direct3D -- If they teach 3D fundamentals like they should, then teaching two APIs that do the same thing is unnecessary. I say this as a Digipen graduate (which has a much better curriculum in my opinion), and while I have no personal grudge against fullsail (call it a philosophical difference instead), you may want to take my words with a grain of salt.

If we ignore the pure, traditional CS (those with no particular game focus) route for a moment, and I were to rank "game programs" by category it would go something like this -- On top we have traditional Universities with game-related tracts (such as the Guildhall at SMU, among others) and Digipen. At the bottom, we have the as-seen-on-TV degrees such as ITT, Devry and Brown (again, as-seen-on-TV Brown, not the University, which I understand has a pretty good CS program.) Somewhere in the nebulous middle we have fullsail.

Plenty of folks might well disagree with my view of things, there's a pretty usual cast of characters that appear in threads like this -- Myself, Josh Petrie, Tom Sloper and others, who typically express different viewpoints which are all valid from our respective positions. Its up to you to parse it all and make sense of it :)

The one thing we traditionally agree on is that no degree program is an end unto itself, nor does any one program yet provide a true one-stop-shop for becoming a formidable game developer with specialized education and a true computer scientist with impeccable fundamentals. Whether you choose to follow a more specific game-related program or to stick with the more traditional route, you're going to need to do a lot of work on your own to fill in the missing pieces to the education you desire. A more traditional CS degree might be lacking in practical, hands-on experience (particularly in game technologies) so you'll likely have to get your own hands dirty with these things in your spare time... Likewise, Digipen, for instance, had plenty of hands on-experience (all presented with an eye towards games) and a good grounding in core fundamentals, but lacked in some perhaps-unnecessary-but-incredibly-useful fundamentals that are common requirements in more traditional programs, and you'll have to fill in those gaps too.


Personally, if you're more than a year into your current program I'd tell you to stick it out, focus your electives towards game-related areas, and develop a portfolio both on your own time, and by designing free-choice projects that are related to some element of gaming technology. Also, if you stick out 4 years at University and still feel your understanding of game technology is lacking, Digipen and other places offer real Masters programs where you can attend for a year or two studying the technology in a game-focused environment and developing a thesis project.

If you're still in that first year, or you're finding your current university to be completely demotivating/demoralizing/uninteresting, and you truly believe that something more games-focused will give you the motivation to make the most of your education, only then would I consider switching to another program.

"sluch" wrote:
>I guess my biggest worry is
>But on the other hand I'm worried

You gotta stop all this worrying! Just collect information and make a decision. Worry will just drive you crazy. Besides, you've been given some great answers. If you keep on going on about "worry" this and "worry" that, you haven't absorbed what you've already been told.

>What do most companies look at when you apply?

They look at your resume, at your portfolio, and at YOU.

>Does it depend more on your portfolio or on your education background?

That's a classic bad "two-choices" question. The answer is "both, and then more besides those two things."

You've gotta slow down and stop. Re-read what we've written above. Read the FAQs here, and on my site. Then come back with further questions anytime. But enough "worrying" already!

Alright, my thoughts.

The weight of a Full Sail degree may not be that "heavy", but if your portfolio is above up to par, then you can expect to get a job somewhere, even with a high school diploma.

At any rate, let me just give some insight on Full Sail. My brother (12 years older than me) attended Full Sail as an Audio Engineer. I have to say that the campus is pretty amazing, take a tour of it sometime. The courses are very intensive, and if you miss even one day, you will be severely behind. It will make you stressed.

But as some positives, Full Sail does provide what you need! (As well they should with how much you pay for tuition.) My brother received full 600 paged text books for each class, along with a 200 paged lab book in which to perform the labs. (Remember, that is per class.) So they go very in-depth. Plus, my brother received a Mac Book, and 2 Power Mac G5s with 8 GB of RAM and specialty PCI-X Creative Audio Cards. The Mac Book was for labs, and the G5s for home. Also, on top of that, he received a MPC (MIDI Production Center now known as Music Production Center) which is specific to sound engineering, and a Full Mastering Board (those things you see with a crap-load of switches.)

These days he is pretty insane at audio engineering, and even has his own indie record company, but the debt that Full Sail inflicted on him is quite severe.

At any rate, choose carefully. I would say that you should ditch Full Sail, gain a BS in Computer Science/EE/Software Engineering, and learn your stuff in the industry. No sense in going to a game school and paying all that money. The internet is also a great learning tool to build up your skills enough to build a portfolio for your interviews.

But if you could get scholarships to Full Sail, then I really don't see a problem with attending just for the hell of it.

Quote:Original post by Syriven
Anyway, I have another question for the people here. Someone mentioned that a good portfolio could get you a job, even with only a HS diploma. Assuming one has a better-than-average portfolio, is it worth considering not even going to college?

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: The odd of this happening today, in such a competitive market that favors hirers about 20:1 over hirees are vanishingly small. It does still happen from time to time, but its not at all something you should be happy to hang your hat on. Game companies are demanding, they expect a smart candidate to have a degree and a degree that proves they know what they're doing in the majority of cases. Others require that you complete a programming test, many of which cover things that fall firmly in the "fundamentals" category of programming, which are the things that a self-taught "game programmer" is likely to have glossed over. Game companies literally get 10s and even hundreds of applications for a single position, and 70+ percent of those often are from wishful thinkers who think games are cool but are no where near qualified. They will cull that pile ruthlessly, so you must separate yourselves from the wannabees. A great body of work can do this, but they often won't even bother to look at your work if they don't see what they want in the first half of your resume. Often times this process is automated and no human will ever evaluate those bottom 70%.

bottom-line, a college degree helps make you stand out in a highly competitive field.

Quote:Original post by Ravyne

Quote:Original post by Syriven
Anyway, I have another question for the people here. Someone mentioned that a good portfolio could get you a job, even with only a HS diploma. Assuming one has a better-than-average portfolio, is it worth considering not even going to college?

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: The odd of this happening today, in such a competitive market that favors hirers about 20:1 over hirees are vanishingly small. It does still happen from time to time, but its not at all something you should be happy to hang your hat on. Game companies are demanding, they expect a smart candidate to have a degree and a degree that proves they know what they're doing in the majority of cases. Others require that you complete a programming test, many of which cover things that fall firmly in the "fundamentals" category of programming, which are the things that a self-taught "game programmer" is likely to have glossed over. Game companies literally get 10s and even hundreds of applications for a single position, and 70+ percent of those often are from wishful thinkers who think games are cool but are no where near qualified. They will cull that pile ruthlessly, so you must separate yourselves from the wannabees. A great body of work can do this, but they often won't even bother to look at your work if they don't see what they want in the first half of your resume. Often times this process is automated and no human will ever evaluate those bottom 70%.

bottom-line, a college degree helps make you stand out in a highly competitive field.

I find that quite scare-tactical and insulting to self-taught programmers. First off, the tests that are given are not hard at all, even for the most competent programmer. That's just a way to weed out the beginners, and to provide them with a way to assess your problem solving abilities. But once again, they are not hard.

Now on the note of an automated process. I really haven't heard of any large companies using this process, to be honest. Could you provide some documentation on that?

Epic Games looks for great talent! So if your portfolio is up to there, then they will most certainly notice, regardless of your resume. And also, people need to be a little self-independent. Contact them, visit the company grounds, request an interview. Those are all things that make them know your serious, and if you have a portfolio to back it up, then it puts you in an even greater light.

A college degree may make you stand out, but it won't make you stand out enough. I am not against college degrees, and I believe you should obtain one, but don't hold it as your golden ticket. You're negligibly closer to a position with a company.

It's not hard to land a job in the game industry. Simple as that. You could even work for SCEA or SCEE (depending where you live), and have a PS3 devkit with a PS2 devkit sitting on your desk. And SCE is nothing short of needing workers. ;)