I still use VC6 for all of my projects at home (mainly because I don`t feel a pressure to make the switch, since VS2k8 standard costs quite a few bucks).
If you`re a C++ purist who wouldn`t touch such implementation with a 10-foot pole, stay away from it.

But considering a 0.7GHz CPU and 64 MB RAM, there aren`t any comfortable IDE choices anyway.

Do you remember 3D action game Giants ? It went out exactly at the time when your configuration was normal (although it ran on low detail on above config).
Giants were a great and a nice game. Should you manage to handle something like Giants, now that would be something !

Quote:Original post by joe1024
I still use VC6 for all of my projects at home (mainly because I don`t feel a pressure to make the switch, since VS2k8 standard costs quite a few bucks).

And why do you think you need the standard edition? Express is free and has almost all of the same features.

Haven`t checked again within lat 6 months, but last time I looked, MFC was included only in Standard version. And since it would take quite a lot of time to recreate whole interface of my current editor in something more current, you don`t have any other chance but to stay with VC6. Sure, I could get a pirated version for free, but it would be hypocritical of me as a programmer to pirate the development SW.

I do use full VC2k8 at work though, so I know I`m not missing very much with regards to IDE functionality, so there`s not a big reason to shell out over $600 for a standard version.
And of course, VC6 is blazing fast on current PCs - recently I have tried VS2005 which was unusably slow on my home Core2Duo PC.
Plus, if you work just on your own application, the differences in langauge standard aren`t that terrible, once you get used to them. Yeah, it`s a pitty, but it`s not worth shelling out $600 (just took a look at few online shops in my area and that`s how much it costs) ...


So, VS2008 can be theoretically free, but actually for how many people ? Only for those who are starting out and don`t have any older codebase behind themselves. Or those who don`t mind shelling out $600 again for something identical with few shiny "features"...

Quote:Original post by joe1024
Haven`t checked again within lat 6 months, but last time I looked, MFC was included only in Standard version. And since it would take quite a lot of time to recreate whole interface of my current editor in something more current, you don`t have any other chance but to stay with VC6. Sure, I could get a pirated version for free, but it would be hypocritical of me as a programmer to pirate the development SW.

I do use full VC2k8 at work though, so I know I`m not missing very much with regards to IDE functionality, so there`s not a big reason to shell out over $600 for a standard version.
And of course, VC6 is blazing fast on current PCs - recently I have tried VS2005 which was unusably slow on my home Core2Duo PC.
Plus, if you work just on your own application, the differences in langauge standard aren`t that terrible, once you get used to them. Yeah, it`s a pitty, but it`s not worth shelling out $600 (just took a look at few online shops in my area and that`s how much it costs) ...

MFC is extremely dated now - although I'm not actually sure what the recommended replacement is. In any case, you can use plain Win32 so long as you don't have a heavily GUI-orientated app.

Quote:Original post by joe1024
So, VS2008 can be theoretically free, but actually for how many people ? Only for those who are starting out and don`t have any older codebase behind themselves. Or those who don`t mind shelling out $600 again for something identical with few shiny "features"...

It's free for anyone who's not using MFC pretty much - Aside from the lack of MFC (And I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could download the MFC APIs somewhere on Microsoft's site), there's nothing I can see in the standard edition which you don't get in express that would be useful to your average hobby / semi-pro developer.

That, and you can't use the newer DirectX or Platform SDKs with VC6 should be reason enough to upgrade. Not to mention the template support, vast code generation improvements, lack of "INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR"s, non-buggy STL implementation, and much better standards compliance. I've actually had VC6 generate assembly that doesn't match the C++ code for it as well, which is a security problem.

If you're doing a mainly GUI app with little or no templates, and don't need XP / Vista UI stuff, and you have an older PC that can't handle VC2005 / VC2008's pretty high system requirements, then by all means stick to VC6 - just beware that there are quite a few bugs in it.

Steve : Yes, all your points are valid. As for hacking in the MFC - it is indeed possible to merge MFC libraries from standard version into Express version. Unfortunately it screws up lots of applications (completely missing portions of UI in most of other applications), so it`s not worth it in the end.

jerm007 : Well, Europe is a whole different world with regards to SW pricing. Extreme cases being 3dsmax which can be bought for $2999 in US, but for over $5000 in Europe (a situation from one or 2 yrs ago, can`t remember exactly, but the difference was that huge).

The same goes for VC2k8. I`m not sure if I could buy it there. Majority of shops don`t allow that (remember, they can find out where you are from just from the credit card number) and will only sell to US-based credit cards.

And of course, should I buy it, I`ll probably keep it for next 5-10 yrs, so I really want a physical box package. I could also download it for free from any warez site without paying anything. Not that I don`t buy games this way (Steam/game portals), but a development SW is an exception. Though, a pretty expensive one.


The issue with MFC is that you can of course use any of the APIs that are present in the Express version, provided you are willing to devote enough time to completely recode the UI that you`ve spent so long creating in MFC.

Of course, once you open that door, there`s no way back and you`ll end up doing other enhancements - thus it`ll surely take quite some time.
So, VC6 will probably have to stay with us for some time...

Thanks for all the great responses, I find this pro-con debate of VC6 vs newer versions very interesting, albeit a little difficult to follow since I've been out of the loop for some time now.

One last thing: should I expect any trouble compiling and learning from newer tutorials written for later versions of VS and DirectX assuming I'm not trying to take advantage of features not supported by DirectX 9.0c (the latest firmware for the GeForce4 MX adds support for DX9c), or should I seek out older tutorials?

Thanks again everybody, you've been extremely helpful.

EDIT: A search for OpenGL tutorials on Google brings up the NeHe tutorials almost everytime, but from what I've read on the site they are quite dated and many people have had trouble compiling them. Is that a possibility as I'm using VS6, or should I look for alternative tutorials if I choose to pursue OpenGL over DX?

Any input? (bumpity bump bump)