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Kilom

Continue or Postpone.....

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First off, I've been lurking these forums for a bit to find a suitable answer to my query so I wouldn't have to run the risk of embarrassing myself on probably an obvious issue by posting, but I have had no such luck. And so, hello. I am relatively young (15, freshmen in high school) and for the past few years I have held an interest in making a game. Recently though, my desire and interest to create something as increased and lulled me to pursue a more avid interest in programming (something that I wanted/needed to do from the start). This ultimately led me to buy C++ Primer Plus (fourth edition as the local bookstore did not seem to carry the firth) as I have made no progress with online tutorials as reading excessive text on a monitor strains my already horrible eyes even more so against a bright background, lack of depth, and generally unsuitable. I am having a difficult time grasping some of this now even, most likely because I just suck at this. This leads to my question....should I postpone learning C++ for pursuit of a simpler language or just push through it? I have tried Python but did not have much a taste for it....it seemed to be too simple, though maybe because I was approaching it in the wrong way. I have even taken a look at C#, but that also feels weird to me, after getting used to some of the basic C++ stuff (such as using 'cout<<' whereas in C# 'Console.WriteLine()'). I have only spoken to a couple of people about this (one advocating Python who loves to do everything with it, and another who prefers to do everything in C++) and I have trouble realizing which is best for me seeing as they are obviously biased. I don't know what to do really. I just want to start off simple, if you count a small, fundamental text RPG* simple, making games as a hobby right now to just sort of say I made/can make a game and maybe get into the industry later on. I am aware that there is a vast amount of work involved in pretty much everything though. To reiterate my question, continue to attempt to learn C++, seeing as I'm already into it some, or postpone and learn a simpler language to better fully understand the basics, giving Python or C# (is it classified as a "simple" language?) another shot? No matter the choice, I would feel better having someone Else's opinion and support on whatever I chose. Hopefully no one will go "tl;dr" :P. *by small and fundamental I mean just having a few player stats, a single quest, a basic turn based combat system and a simple town for a few various things EDIT: IF need be I'll start off on something else. I'll listen/do to whatever you guys advise.

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If you feel Python is simple, why not use it? Simplicity is an asset, not a liability, especially if you're a beginner.

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What feels like the best course of action to you?


You'll need to persist with whatever language you want to learn if you want to get anywhere, but if you're really stuck with C++ then another language may be a better option for you in the meantime - this depends on you personally though, and we can't really tell you that you'll be better off with either option.



I personally would recommend that as a beginner Python or C# may be more suitable to you than C++, but as I've said, C++ is still a valid option if you're willing to stick with it and push through the difficulties. While these languages (Python and C# that is) are simpler to use, they're still capable of very impressive results and will ultimately help you learn programming just as well (if not better) than C++ would. With joining the industry as a distant and only potential goal there's really no strong reason C++ needs to be your current language of choice unless it's your personal preference.

This is a personal choice, and we can't really guarantee that either option will be better suited to you. The important thing more than any other decision is to pick either option, even if it might be the 'wrong' one and stick with it enough to learn programming.

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I have made no progress with online tutorials as reading excessive text on a monitor strains my already horrible eyes even more so against a bright background, lack of depth, and generally unsuitable.
Check your monitor's refresh rate. They often default at 60 hz which gives me a headache. If you can raise it to 85 or 100 it may help. Of course you should also tweak the brightness/contrast to your liking. Try setting the font to a larger size. Try ClearType on or off. Lower the resolution to 1024*768. There's a lot of little things like that can make reading more comfortable.
Quote:
I am having a difficult time grasping some of this now even, most likely because I just suck at this. This leads to my question....should I postpone learning C++ for pursuit of a simpler language or just push through it? I have tried Python but did not have much a taste for it....it seemed to be too simple, though maybe because I was approaching it in the wrong way.
People sometimes mistake simple for limited. Really anything you would be doing in C++ you can do in Python (assuming you wouldn't be creating your own device drivers or operating systems). All of the major languages are "Turing equivelent", which is a fancy term meaning any program can be translated from one to another, practicality issues aside.

Also, the tutorials you're reading are obviously going to start with the simplest constructs and work up slowly. You probably haven't gotten far enough to see how complex a Python program can truly be.
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I have even taken a look at C#, but that also feels weird to me, after getting used to some of the basic C++ stuff (such as using 'cout<<' whereas in C# 'Console.WriteLine()').

I have only spoken to a couple of people about this (one advocating Python who loves to do everything with it, and another who prefers to do everything in C++) and I have trouble realizing which is best for me seeing as they are obviously biased. I don't know what to do really. I just want to start off simple, if you count a small, fundamental text RPG* simple, making games as a hobby right now to just sort of say I made/can make a game and maybe get into the industry later on. I am aware that there is a vast amount of work involved in pretty much everything though.

To reiterate my question, continue to attempt to learn C++, seeing as I'm already into it some, or postpone and learn a simpler language to better fully understand the basics, giving Python or C# (is it classified as a "simple" language?) another shot?
Go with a simpler language. I recommend Python. Text processing is a breeze in Python. Yeah, when you move on to another language you will miss the methods you "got used too" but that's just life. You will eventually learn many languages and it won't be such a big deal. But for learning I will always try to steer people to Python. And you don't have to abandon it when you get more advanced. I personally changed to Python after years of C++ because I'm just so much more effecient with it. There are libraries for most game-related things you are likely to want, including high-performance 3D graphics.

And there are many Python pros here on the forums to help you along the way, if that's what you choose. Welcome, and good luck.

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Well at first I did try changing my monitor settings, but still had no effect. My eyes would still hurt! Fortunately though, that was when I had that old monitor. A bit back I have gotten a new computer (prebuilt, would rather build one on my own but do not simply have the time for it, especially since it would be my first time) and thus a new monitor with it whose clarity seems to be much better and easier on my eyes.

I worded my OP quite badly (correct grammar? o.O), and at 2 am in the morning, please forgive any discrepancies in my logic.

When I said that Python was "too simple" I did not mean it a negative fashion as in "Python should be counted as a language". In fact I don't even know why I said it. I have only had a first impression of Python and it wasn't exactly the best, rather dry and boring really.

I think I'll take another look in Python again. Using PyGame for something later on seems promising and interesting. If anything, I suppose I will find other uses for Python later on that I will be glad I had bothered with it.

I just really wanted a second opinion on this. Thank you guys for responding.

So I don't have to look for it, do any of you recommend any particular Python resources, tips, advice, etc? :P

Hopefully I'll become more active here and actually be a useful member...I have taken a liking to these forums. Once again, thanks guys for putting up with me.

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I think you should like python. I too thought it was too simple but gave it a shot. It is safe to say that I love it. I haven't used it for an extremely long time and today I am making an ASCII invaders game. :)

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Original post by steveworks
I think you should like python. I too thought it was too simple but gave it a shot. It is safe to say that I love it. I haven't used it for an extremely long time and today I am making an ASCII invaders game. :)


ASCII games...compared to other things, relatively simple? Or still somewhat difficult. Just sort of wondering.

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Original post by Kilom
So I don't have to look for it, do any of you recommend any particular Python resources, tips, advice, etc? :P
You can find a bunch of useful Python resources here. I personally liked How to Think Like a Computer Scientist -- Learning with Python, but your tastes may vary, so take a look at some of the other resources as well.

Just a quick tip - a new version of Python (3.0) has just been released, but as you're aiming for games and none of the game-related libraries have been updated yet I'd recommend starting out with 2.6 instead.

Hope that helps, good luck! [smile]

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Original post by Kilom
Quote:
Original post by steveworks
I think you should like python. I too thought it was too simple but gave it a shot. It is safe to say that I love it. I haven't used it for an extremely long time and today I am making an ASCII invaders game. :)

ASCII games...compared to other things, relatively simple? Or still somewhat difficult. Just sort of wondering.
Compared to a graphical game usually much simpler and therefore good to practice your skills with when getting started (unless of course you take it to an extreme and do something like Dwarf Fortress). ASCII games do however sometimes have their own challenges (particularly if you're hell-bent on replicating a graphical effect in ASCII, less so if you're just working with text) and will still take some effort to work through as a beginner while you're still learning to solve the problems associated with developing any game.

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ASCII games...compared to other things, relatively simple? Or still somewhat difficult. Just sort of wondering.
That depends on the game, right? Just because the interface presented to the player is a console doesn’t mean the underlying game itself is simple. Or vice versa. Looking at your first post, I’ll point you to the term “roguelike”, which you may already be familiar with.

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