# Feedback on Game Concept

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 Original post by Morbid AddictionFocus/Stress:This bar has a pointer that sits in the middle... to start with... If you crouch perfectly still for long enough, you'll raise towards focus; you'll be more acurate and cast spells stronger..

I really don't like this mechanic; it basically seems to reward and encourage boring play.
Either you just camp and snipe, or you run around killing things for a bit and then spend ten minutes doing nothing in some remote corner of the map waiting for your meter to refill. Neither of which is particularly enjoyable either for the player himself, nor for anyone else in the game.

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 Original post by SandmanI really don't like this mechanic; it basically seems to reward and encourage boring play.Either you just camp and snipe, or you run around killing things for a bit and then spend ten minutes doing nothing in some remote corner of the map waiting for your meter to refill. Neither of which is particularly enjoyable either for the player himself, nor for anyone else in the game.

It would not take ten minutes :P more like two - three seconds, and remember putting points into this stat increases the amount of stress a player can take.

I figure it would balance spell casters (no casting of 10 spells one after the other, more of a 2-4 depending on strength of spell... wait three, four seconds... cast more).

Also would make sniper a camp skill (since its what its design to do), no cs style sniping of 'jump out, snipe, run, snipe' knid of stuff... It would be a skill that you have to place alot of XP into stealth perfecting your acuracy and shooting over time, since it would be a 1 - 2 shot kill the stress would be high pershot, making you only able to shoot 2,3 shots before you start to loose acuracy, makes snipers have to think more.

But Also... I forgot to add that putting points in skills would decrease the effect of stress on that skill, so for the 'warroir' type class there are alot of weapon profesencies and placing points in the certain weapons class would lower the stress involved in shooting them, making it possible to never even have focus lower to stress... (also hit stress skills etc).

It would even out player builds, meaning if a player tanks the 'warroir' skills they would be able to take alot of damage and shoot in skirmishes for longer peroids of time than a spell caster build or a stealth kind of player.

Which should force a stealth player to play more of a stealth game and a spell caster to stratigize more.

And finally I forgot to add the fact that each of the main 3 skill trees involve their own weapon class skills, though the warroir type will have all except sniper available to them.

I will if you'd like post a more involve post on skill trees once I have finished them.

Thanks for the feedback, :D
Wyatt.

{edit)

Also forgot to mention what I thought having focus/stress for is it builds a game.

For example:

Early game, its a slow, everyone is quite balanced but as people gain the XP the game becomes more and more intesnce as people can survive much longer, people are moving faster, stronger and bigger range of spells, weapons and skills until the very end it becomes a very quick paced game...

I figure it would involve players alot more, let them get into the swing of how they're going to play the match out.

And if you just want instant action severs would be able to give players a much higher Xp rate, or a set amount of XP at the beginning so you are able to jump straight in ;)

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Have only digested the basics (i hope), but i was wondering...

Is the player characters persistant ie do they develop the PC over a number of matches.
How would you balance the matches then or would you even bother.
Whats the longevity, are the PC advancements really numerous and time consuming eg WoW, or do the players just restart as a different class.

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Quote:
 Original post by GuthurHave only digested the basics (i hope), but i was wondering...Is the player characters persistant ie do they develop the PC over a number of matches.How would you balance the matches then or would you even bother.Whats the longevity, are the PC advancements really numerous and time consuming eg WoW, or do the players just restart as a different class.

I have thought of a number of differn't awnsers over the last couple of months and come to the conculsion that Players start a game at 0, new game, start at 0. For balancing issues as well that the managment of a players progress would be too hard to keep (unless you could only play on that one sever per character but even then you wouldn't be balanced since new players join the sever would be at a massive disadvantge).

So, I just thought I would stick with each new game, everything is reset, though keep in mind, a sever could apply a mod/patch that keeps players Xp etc... (think Cs with RPG mod levels).

I hope I am awnsering your question correctly :P

Thanks,
Wyatt.

(EDIT)

Also, XP rate can be modified by each sever, so you could have very slow WoW progress, or just extremly fast...

I mainly conclued (for now) that you can gain XP from: Kills, completing objectives (such as capturing land in take and hold etc) and a slow, very minamal timely xp rate (as in, just for playing your xp will increase, the rate wont be anything to compete with kills and objectives but just is there for a handicap purpose). Also as your number of skills or amount of xp gain (if severs can follow that with ease) increase this timely xp will decrease in amount.

Also, I figured that early game there could be mutant animals, or outlanders that spawned in the center of both sides of play/randomy area of levels (that is balanced though so not one faction spawns with all animals on there side). and have them for early xp rush (once again not on par with xp from kills, but early game would certainly help ;).

[Edited by - Morbid Addiction on December 17, 2008 6:34:01 AM]

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The variably XP gain isn't a bad idea and kind of sorts out the WoW affect I was worried about in a one shot match; you couldn't ask your players to be doing massive 2 hour matches for instance just to max out their character.

You should maybe punish a player for dying as well so you don't have two players on opposing teams exploiting the kill XP mechanism.

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Yeah I did think about that but wasn't sure if that would balance to well, for exmaple... if one team gets the upper hand, how do you balance it back, it would just be pure ownage for that side for the whole game...

Unless it was balanced like

- loss of xp from death = 1/2 xp gain from a kill +

or even less like 1/4 of a gain from a kill.

Becuase you have to remember 'n00b' players have to get some level of enjoyment out of a game.

BUT, oence again this can be a sever prefrnce which opens up to even allowing for pro severs.

You could for instance even have an anti-rape mechinisam where if a player is doing farrrr to well constantly on a sever the players stats are cut inhalf or lower more OR even kicked from the sever (severs could have this turned on or off).

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You could increase the XP over time value for the team that is losing so as to give them a wee boost. You could also maybe move players but thats not a great option.

Edit: actually moving players gave me an idea. If you could maybe add any new players to the losing side you could maybe balance the teams with sheer numbers ie making the losing team out number the stronger team

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Quote:
 Original post by GuthurYou could increase the XP over time value for the team that is losing so as to give them a wee boost. You could also maybe move players but thats not a great option.Edit: actually moving players gave me an idea. If you could maybe add any new players to the losing side you could maybe balance the teams with sheer numbers ie making the losing team out number the stronger team

Its an Idea!!

But remember, the raping faction would most likely have a leading in skills, stats and weapons... which tier 3 weapons for example are going to rape any player on tier 1 as long as the tier 3 player isn't a totally newbie.

Acually I would add the new players to the winning side, since their side can protect them/help them out more. And on the other hand the opposing side would gain more of a chance of gaining xp from these new players.

I do want to stay away from player swaping as players would most likely get anoyed at this, in a normal FPS its fine in most cases as its normaly very basic game, be for yourself and kill any enemies. But in this there is a lot of team work and I'm only guessing that players would prefer to play together with other friends on the same faction. (such as clans).

Another Idea I have was, for kill xp rates to be on some level to the killed player...

That way, if a player thats raping is killed by another player, they would gain a much higher xp rate than the gain from someone either below his own or even on the same level of xp. Which also creates a balancing beam of its own... since players who wish to receive the greatest rewards for kills are going to target the stronger players rather than the weaker.

Thanks,
Wyatt.

[Edited by - Morbid Addiction on December 17, 2008 7:36:19 AM]

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Scaling the XP gain to level of the disposed opposing player is a good idea. And team swapping is annoying, I never liked being moved on Counter Strike for example.

New players wouldn't have to wait, they could be assigned in a balanced way when the teams are 'near' equal and then stop assigning them to one team when it gets too strong. But you are right to question it because it is not a fail safe balancing mechanism, what if there was no new players to join for instance. So it would only be useful as part of the balancing mechanism not as the sole instrument.

[Edited by - Guthur on December 17, 2008 8:57:25 AM]

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Well, is it possible to define, say its all based on:

a). Amount of players on each team.
b). Amount of Xp (as a whole) the team has made.

If so, that along with the Kill reward ratio, and the kicking of players if their ability to play seems to be far behond that of the rest of the sever population. Then I think these 3 processors working together would work to create a balance between Factions.

More to the idea could be...
That if a player becomes too strong, then the game will put a target on that player.. almost a bounty on their head maybe and an extra XP reward or somthing drawing others to do so.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Wyatt.

Scrap that? I would prefer to keep things more simple.

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There is another option, but warning the balancing issues would be exponentially difficult depending on the number of classes and advancements.

Basically what if PC's don't actually become more powerful but instead more specialised, ie you are trading general skill for a specialisation.

scout(concealment, speed)- Sniper  - LongRange (lone wolf really weak less speed)                                   - Assault sniper (less range but tougher stays closer to team)                                                  - Point man (tougher, concealed, assault weapons)  - Tank (loses speed gains toughness)                                                                            -Clairvouyant (gets ability to see concealed enemies, weaker)

Thats is a rough estimate of one class, the formatting might be messed up :|, hope you get the idea. But like i said balancing would become more difficult the more you add, basically its all tradeoffs.

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Not crystals as a power source again.

Didn't anybody learn from Tiberium Wars?

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@Guthur: Great Idea :) there could be balancing issues though? And I haven't figured out if you would either:

a). Choose a class upon joining the game.
b). Have accssess to every skill tree creating more variety of players (and have model changes after death that corrospond to skills (ie, more points in magik push for the mage player model).

@Cpt Mothballs: Doesn't have to be crystals, I origanlly had a backstory where seintists while working on an experiment to do with atoms (or somthing arather) miscalculate and over shoot their mark for power by a decemial place or somthing.

It creates a rip in the universe and most of the world gets covered in this black kind of plasma stuff and there are randomly rips that lead to other dimensions or the other side of the universe.

But I did state that its completly just a guide line, anything can be changed :)
Thanks,
Wyatt.

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First of all, it's Scientists.

Secondly, if these sci-fi based game, you're going to have to create a setting where this is technically feasible and THEN, you're going to have to have to either briefly show how it is, or go and throw in time-travelling alien concubines.
Just another thing, if there's magic, why is there still religion?
Last I heard, anything related to magic was considered paganism or devil worship.
Wouldn't this have caused a stir earlier?

Why are the factions so clear cut? If you're going to put a story in and then totally disregard it by placing three totally clear cut groups of people, why bother with the story at all?
Seems a little pointless, considering the perspectives are so predictable.

What gameplay modes are there going to be?

If there are going to be wormholes, how are players going to be able to take advantage of that?
Furthermore, if there is going to be 50 vs 50 combat, how are you going to implement them so that there's no tele-camping?

I have more questions.

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Quote:
 Original post by Cpt MothballsFirst of all, it's Scientists.

Sorry, I am a hopeless speller and do not have any spell check software.

Quote:
 Original post by Cpt MothballsSecondly, if these sci-fi based game, you're going to have to create a setting where this is technically feasible and THEN, you're going to have to have to either briefly show how it is, or go and throw in time-travelling alien concubines.

For this, what I have said is only a rough guide line, you seem to be picking at it as though it were a full thought out design :P

But to awnser your question anyway. It is quite possible to create the setting as well as make it technically feasible (as it is set in the future) and doesn't involve any real technology advancements other than nano bots ect but weapons and everything else around that your subject to in the game world is all basicly the same as today.

Just with slightly differn't looks and some more adanced armor... but nothing that couldn't be deemed feasible.

The game since its basic design at the moment only deals with online multiplayer and will only have an opening backstory when you first load up the game (I'm guessing). If it was ever to become more popular, then a single player/co op could be released.

Or I did think about a bunch of just multiplayer maps that are differn't periods of time through out the story and if players wish their could be many signs of story telling on the maps them selfs.

This could also be added to the singleplayer as easter eggs (as in maybe graffeti on the wall thats the same in a multiplayer map for instant) but at the moment single player is not in question.

Quote:
 Original post by Cpt MothballsJust another thing, if there's magic, why is there still religion?Last I heard, anything related to magic was considered paganism or devil worship.Wouldn't this have caused a stir earlier?

There is magic involved all throughout religion, just its more under tones than anything, for a very basic example... you have Jesus with the water to wine. As example.

But, as I did say in my orignal post:

'Through experiments they were able to create some sort of 'magik' compound. Though it laid a toll on the people who used it, made their bodies weaker and weaker. But there were also other propierties of this rock.'

Its not magik, but to do with sceince, just that sceince can't explain everything though a theroy could be applyed to it, Its not magic exaclly that you use in the game, its more of less this 'substance' applied to the body in differn't ways resulting in differn't affects.

The image of a mage in my head involves a twisted being that has tubes runing in and out of its body, those tubes cary this substance around the body, which increases the mind, but obivously the side effects create twisted and weak bodies. With the help of nano bots (also having the substance applied to them) are connected to the mage's brain.

For instance, a fireball type of spell, Nanobots move around in a certain may, say infront of the mage's hand which he can aim the direction of the shot, once ready the nanobots help repel the flame in that direction... Same can be applied to Ice, Lighting and (maybe) even some sort of darkness effect.

Also, remember that this is all set in the future where the people of earth lived in a somewhat peacful soicity, this can deffently be expanded upon to facts such as if everyone is leaving in peace then there must be some level of uderstanding between religion and science, giving way for the acceptance that they beleieve that this substance has come from god to give to them (this obviously involves extremists etc).

Quote:
 Original post by Cpt MothballsWhy are the factions so clear cut? If you're going to put a story in and then totally disregard it by placing three totally clear cut groups of people, why bother with the story at all?Seems a little pointless, considering the perspectives are so predictable.

Sorry thats my fault, I forgot to add the word 'main'. These are the main three groups you are dealing with (for now). Knowlege of others would be avalible, but these factions are no way near strong enough to take on the main two.

This leads onto a story line in single player (if implemented) which can involve many differn't Factions. It also opens to an exspansion add on... which where after single player another faction in the end gains enough power to create a three way, which can open to a 3 way games.

Orignally I had 'Sojourn and the Embrace' faction as one of these minor groups. And still could be, as its only just a guide line that i could even change on a daily basis.

Quote:
 Original post by Cpt MothballsWhat gameplay modes are there going to be?If there are going to be wormholes, how are players going to be able to take advantage of that?Furthermore, if there is going to be 50 vs 50 combat, how are you going to implement them so that there's no tele-camping?

For starters, the goal would be to release early beta with death match. Then work Take and Hold and Crystal (or whatever) Collect. After this is done anything is possible and can be release via down load (additional content) such as survival, even mission maps (like constantly reacting to the game enviroment with a comander giving orders, after set main objectives are complete the game is one).

I don't beleive I ever mentioned wormholes, if you are refering to the rips I would say that they would reappear every time, and leave behind this substance, like the orignal game concept. But the only thing to work on there is that in game i was orignaly intending shards to fall during play or somthing in the background.

(see with the shard/crystal showers they constantly fall upon earth, but arn't always falling everywhere, so you would/are able to see shards falling in the distance).

... If tele-camping is teleporter camping (like sitting behind the portal in sidewinder on halo) this isn't envolved in this game... Though a skill may involve a 'blink (sort distance teleport)' skill there is real teleporting.

I hope I am awnsering you correclty!

Thanks,
Wyatt.

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Quote:
Quote:
 Original post by Cpt MothballsFirst of all, it's Scientists.

Sorry, I am a hopeless speller and do not have any spell check software.

Firefox is free and has built in spell check.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/

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I have firefox, where is the built in spell check? or is it an addon?

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