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Daan013

RPG

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Daan013    102
Hey I'm new to these forums, but I already looked at them for a few times. I hope I'm not doing/posting anything against the rules and if I do please tell me. My game idea is an RPG, I know most guys are tired of people announcing: Hey look at me i'm going to make an RPG and it will be better than all the others. But I'll just give it a try ;). Like I said I want to make an RPG and it doesn't have to be with super new graphics and with an engine like Havok, Euphoria, Frostbite etc. It is my plan to have it as medieval as possible, so no magic but there can maybe be some monsters. I already wrote alot on paper about it and made some sketchy maps for the world. What I want to make unique about this RPG is that when you grow up, you start like a kid, the world will change when you grow up. What I mean is not only that there are maybe houses build but i mean the appearence of the world itself. As a kid you see the world so colourful, great, as a big playground(well that's what I thought when I was younger). But as you slowly grow up you will learn the dark-sides of the world like war, and the world isn't as colourful and as a dream and your vision on the world will get slightly less colourful and nice as you first thought. That's what i want to include in the game, that you see it's way more dangerous then you were thinking as a child. And to show this you can make the world itself less colourful and more aggresive and see things that you didn't see in your childhood like war, and 'unfair' things. Thank you for reading this and tell me what you think, but please be as act mature. Ps. Sorry if I made spelling mistakes, English isn't my first language.

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Daan013    102
I expected you to say that but Fable is when YOU CHANGE the world, and my idea is when you grow up.
Fable is more like a matter Good/Evil.
My idea is more a matter of time.
And Fable stays like a fairy tale and my game idea is you begin in a fairy tale and you end in a sort of hell.
Fast reply by the way.


Ps. I already read alot of Tom Sloper at Sloperama and like 8 other sites.
And I'm really looking everywhere for inspiriration i even once wrote some word at school in my workbook that i didn't hear right and changed it a little bit until it was a good name for a fantasy country i didn't use it though xD.
And i have a problem: I'm pretty young.

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zer0wolf    1022
How does this all affect the gameplay? The setting concept seems like it could be mildly compelling, but doesn't add up to much of a selling point. What is the actual impact on the player's experiences (besides aesthetics)?

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Daan013    102
Quote:
Original post by zer0wolf
How does this all affect the gameplay? The setting concept seems like it could be mildly compelling, but doesn't add up to much of a selling point. What is the actual impact on the player's experiences?



Well it's my plan to really let you feel you grow up and get more experienced in a game world.
I don't think it is ever done in a game is it?
It's like a book, you start and the more you advance in it the more detail is added to the world.

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zer0wolf    1022
Actually, the beginning of the recent Fallout 3 had you pretty well doing exactly that. You begin the game as a baby and then the first half hour to an hour of gameplay is you reaching adulthood. Taking this and expanding it across the length of an entire game can work, but what I'm say is that I don't think this in and of itself is all that compelling.

What is the player learning as they get older (besides the obvious)? What are the different changes that will occur in the world around the player (besides just visual changes)? Where is the excitement coming from?

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Is it all based on time, or are there scripted changes? As in, you accomplish a certain mission of sorts and you age? Or, is it ment to be more of a sandbox game (which I don't beleive fable to be unlike morrowind) where you are completly free to do whatever you like?

In either case, try to think about what would engage a player to keep playing, otherwise I doubt people will just wait around to get old ;P

But it is a good conecpt do you die at the end?

Goodluck,
Wyatt.

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Orymus3    18822
I like your basic idea, but I'd love to see more gameplay impact as stated by others before. It seems you have the classical "good idea" to start from, but it refuses to really take shape, at least, in the words you are telling us, it is just a somber idea with no real attaches to the gaming world aside from vague references. If you can list various ways your idea can be achieved, it would give us a better idea about exactly how gameplay would be influenced by the scope of the loss of innocence (because you are not refering to maturity nor aging, but merely the loss of innocence). I would point out alice, and american mcgee's alice as references for your design process though, as you may realize the innocent and not-so-innocent alice have only few things in common...

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Daan013    102
What i mean is when you are a child you see for example a house just as a big collection of bricks with a roof on it, but when you get older you are starting to see more detail of it like the material it is made of, the shape, the little details, what sort of architecture.

I want that to happen when you play the game, you first are a kid and feel like this you see only basic shapes but when you advance in the game, the game will show more detail in the world (better graphics).

The game must be like: You start in Fable, the game's goal isn't being detailed. And you end up in a sort of The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.
I hope you guys know what i mean, and thanks for the comments.

Ps. I have read this technique in a book on How To Make Cartoon Characters.
And it describes the first part of the book where Arthur is a kid, at that period the drawing style is very innocent, and less detailed.
And the further Arthur grows the more detailed and harder the drawing-style gets.

It's like drawing/painting: First you make a sketch (Childhood in the game) and then it will end up being a piece of art, fully coloured and detailed (Aged in the game)






[Edited by - Daan013 on December 18, 2008 3:29:32 AM]

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Sandman    2210
Quote:
Original post by Daan013
Well i don't have plans for it to affect the gameplay.


Ah, I see.

From a purely artistic standpoint then, as I already said, it's could be quite a cool artistic device, done properly,

However, if I were actually involved in developing this game, this would probably be one of the first features I'd cut. Creating multiple versions of models, textures, animations etc. that will be needed to get things looking right in both cartoon and realistic views - and all the shades of grey in between - is a lot of effort to go to for something that is nothing more than an artistic gimmick, however neat it might be.

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Orymus3    18822
I agree with sandman.
And if I were into such a team, I would make sure that nothing is simply kept to aesthetics. This kinda reminds me of a conversation I had regarding Zelda's OOT and TP recently, and the guy said TP was simply better looking than OOT but that OOT had better gameplay. Now, i dunno, nor do I care if it is true or not, but the thing is, in the guy's mind, having better aesthetics didn't make a better gaming experience on its own, and the crappier looking game seemed to appeal to him. More importantly, that person was a graphical artist, and so, he was the kind to give a damn about the game's aethetics more than the average guy, so basically, like I thought too, gameplay was more important than aesthetics alone. This doesn't mean the idea is bad, but can you trully hope to make your game unique and addictive to your player pool with simple aesthetics is kinda far-fetched and I'd rather have strong gameplay ties with the concept. I advise you to further study your idea, as I find it highly original, and find some ties to gameplay that would make the game a whole thematic idea.
Just my opinion though.

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Daan013    102
Quote:
Original post by Orymus3
I agree with sandman.
And if I were into such a team, I would make sure that nothing is simply kept to aesthetics. This kinda reminds me of a conversation I had regarding Zelda's OOT and TP recently, and the guy said TP was simply better looking than OOT but that OOT had better gameplay. Now, i dunno, nor do I care if it is true or not, but the thing is, in the guy's mind, having better aesthetics didn't make a better gaming experience on its own, and the crappier looking game seemed to appeal to him. More importantly, that person was a graphical artist, and so, he was the kind to give a damn about the game's aethetics more than the average guy, so basically, like I thought too, gameplay was more important than aesthetics alone. This doesn't mean the idea is bad, but can you trully hope to make your game unique and addictive to your player pool with simple aesthetics is kinda far-fetched and I'd rather have strong gameplay ties with the concept. I advise you to further study your idea, as I find it highly original, and find some ties to gameplay that would make the game a whole thematic idea.
Just my opinion though.




The 'child world' and the 'older world' wasn't really ment for gameplay it was just a graphical feature and not a gameplay one, however I will surely look into deeper. And indeed gameplay is more important, but what I always think:
"Better Graphics also help the gameplay"
I'm sure you guys would choose one with good gameplay + good graphics then one with good gameplay + bad graphics.

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Sandman    2210
Quote:
Original post by Daan013
And indeed gameplay is more important, but what I always think:
"Better Graphics also help the gameplay"
I'm sure you guys would choose one with good gameplay + good graphics then one with good gameplay + bad graphics.


It's not so much about graphics vs. gameplay, so much as "does this feature justify the effort required to implement it?" and "could that effort be better spent elsewhere?"

My estimate is that this feature would require a significant amount of effort from both artists and programmers. You'd probably more than double the number of art assets (models, animations, and textures) you needed for the same amount of actual content. You'd also need some extensive shader and code work to render and blend between all the different visual styles used in the game. All that time and effort could be spent creating more original content, or implementing other features and adding more polish.

Of course, if you've got time and money to waste, then none of that's a problem - but that's rarely the case in real game development, and it's even more rare for unlimited schedules to actually result in a successful project.

In short, my feeling is that aesthetics alone don't justify it. Of course, that's a personal opinion taken from a cold, practical point of view - a more artistically inclined opinion might disagree.

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kseh    3840
Graphics are far from my specialty so I'm probably being super nieve here, but would it be possible to maybe start out with a detailed texture and apply some sort of filtering or processing to it that results in less detail or a more child like appearance? Kinda like that process where you start with a photo and end up with a sketch. If there are enough things like that which end up being useful you wouldn't need to commision as many sets of resources.

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Kest    547
I just wanted to make a simple point. A designer doesn't need to directly influence gameplay to significantly influence the gameplay experience. Atmosphere, emotion, and player-character connections can influence the way a player interacts with the game just as much or more so than gameplay features can. In other words, a non-gameplay feature can make a game more fun.

I'm not saying this particular feature will do that, but I am one who enjoys interacting with the game world as a child before growing into the adult version of a player character, and this feature sounds like an intriguing branch of that.

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Quote:
Original post by Daan013
Hey I'm new to these forums, but I already looked at them for a few times.
I hope I'm not doing/posting anything against the rules and if I do please tell me.

My game idea is an RPG, I know most guys are tired of people announcing: Hey look at me i'm going to make an RPG and it will be better than all the others.
But I'll just give it a try ;).

Like I said I want to make an RPG and it doesn't have to be with super new graphics and with an engine like Havok, Euphoria, Frostbite etc.
It is my plan to have it as medieval as possible, so no magic but there can maybe be some monsters.
I already wrote alot on paper about it and made some sketchy maps for the world.
What I want to make unique about this RPG is that when you grow up, you start like a kid, the world will change when you grow up.
What I mean is not only that there are maybe houses build but i mean the appearence of the world itself.
As a kid you see the world so colourful, great, as a big playground(well that's what I thought when I was younger).
But as you slowly grow up you will learn the dark-sides of the world like war, and the world isn't as colourful and as a dream and your vision on the world will get slightly less colourful and nice as you first thought.

That's what i want to include in the game, that you see it's way more dangerous then you were thinking as a child.
And to show this you can make the world itself less colourful and more aggresive and see things that you didn't see in your childhood like war, and 'unfair' things.

Thank you for reading this and tell me what you think, but please be as act mature.

Ps. Sorry if I made spelling mistakes, English isn't my first language.


Sounds like a really interesting perspective on RPGs.

You can note this sort of concept in the cinematography for the horror film, Hostel. If you haven't seen it (and aren't overly squeamish) I would recommend watching it to see said camera-work. In the first half of the film, the protagonist sees European life as a big dance-party, with alcohol flowing like water, and beautiful women abound. The second half of the movie (turning point is when the protagonist becomes drugged and wakes up in a maintenance closet, he starts seeing things for what they really are... the "beautiful" women have dark circles under their eyes, the world looks dingy and grey, and so on.

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