I do that all the time, but that's really ineffective when someone goes, "what's your experience" and you say "come look at this game...this this and this is wrong"
It might work for certain jobs because that means if a car is broke and you can tell a car is broke without much looking wrong with it then you probably can fix it, but more intuitive and subjective things don't quite work like that simply because anyone could say that a sentence is wrong or a game has something wrong with it.
And yes that is one of the things I say as well, If you can't pick up any game, even games that you consider to be great and near perfect, and say something is wrong and give a way to correct it you shouldn't even consider game design. So I understand what you're saying.
How much info?
Now I understand the another meaning in your term design. If I were to highlight it, I would rephrase it like this:
My possession is the unique style I have (could be world building, could be a gameplay, a game mechanic, a particular backdrop of a story I got from my unique experience, or an integration of many things). How do I convince others that my style is good without hinting about my style?
(I don't know how.)
My possession is the unique style I have (could be world building, could be a gameplay, a game mechanic, a particular backdrop of a story I got from my unique experience, or an integration of many things). How do I convince others that my style is good without hinting about my style?
(I don't know how.)
Author
I guess you might put it like that, though that doesn't sound too good put like that ^.^
May I test something about your concept?
Could you tell the core concept in a sentence or a paragraph without using any adjective or figurative words? For example:
Tetris:
A 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed.
Otherwise I think what you could do is to simply disclose what you want and see what you get.
Suppose now I tell you that,
"I am working on another 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed. It is not a Tetris clone. But I will only tell you the concept if you intend to help."
Would this description be interesting enough to recruit a helper?
Which of the following lines would be the most potent additional description?
A) "I need at least one more programmer because I want it to be completed before Valentine's Day."
B) "I need someone that can program for [insert platform name] cellphone."
C) "I need someone with programming skills on multiplayer games."
Tom already mentioned the platforme and the goal/reason for the project. I think the others are also mentioned in the guide for the HelpWanted section of the forum. I think a big factor is the level of commitment, as in how long you expect the project to last.
I suppose if your project is big and no one wants to commit to it, it might be better to think up some smaller 1-week/2-weeks projects just to start building up a team. You could catch other programmers who are working on long projects. Sometimes they would be attracted to do it because it is short and sweet. If you work well with that person that maybe you could collaborate again.
Could you tell the core concept in a sentence or a paragraph without using any adjective or figurative words? For example:
Tetris:
A 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed.
Otherwise I think what you could do is to simply disclose what you want and see what you get.
Suppose now I tell you that,
"I am working on another 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed. It is not a Tetris clone. But I will only tell you the concept if you intend to help."
Would this description be interesting enough to recruit a helper?
Which of the following lines would be the most potent additional description?
A) "I need at least one more programmer because I want it to be completed before Valentine's Day."
B) "I need someone that can program for [insert platform name] cellphone."
C) "I need someone with programming skills on multiplayer games."
Tom already mentioned the platforme and the goal/reason for the project. I think the others are also mentioned in the guide for the HelpWanted section of the forum. I think a big factor is the level of commitment, as in how long you expect the project to last.
I suppose if your project is big and no one wants to commit to it, it might be better to think up some smaller 1-week/2-weeks projects just to start building up a team. You could catch other programmers who are working on long projects. Sometimes they would be attracted to do it because it is short and sweet. If you work well with that person that maybe you could collaborate again.
Author
Quote:
"I am working on another 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed. It is not a Tetris clone. But I will only tell you the concept if you intend to help."
Would this description be interesting enough to recruit a helper?
As a designer, no.
As an artist, I'd do it just to be helpful as it wouldn't be that hard to do and it's a credit so why not.
As a programmer, It would look interesting from an experience stand point and should be fairly easy to accomplish even with base level programming.
As a writer, not really ,but I'd be open to listen to the idea before I make my descision.
As a producer, I'd be interested as it would be cheap, be easily ported, and small games like that are really popular. It's not a heavy risk, and the possible profit is good.
Quote:
Which of the following lines would be the most potent additional description?
A) "I need at least one more programmer because I want it to be completed before Valentine's Day."
B) "I need someone that can program for [insert platform name] cellphone."
C) "I need someone with programming skills on multiplayer games."
C is a bit irrelevant. If you can program for a single player game you should be able to program for a multiplayer game and that tells me that you really shouldn't be asking what you are asking or are lying.
A and B are a bit harder to judge though as it really does depend on situation and neither would be too helpful in the case that A's and B's situation is true.
On the designer's side of things I'd think the following...
If they are both true and you can only say one then it weak as both have problems. If the project needs to be done by Valentine's day that's important to know as some people aren't good rushed, but if you then want to put it on a specific console or cellphone it is best to get someone with experience on that so they can get it done the fastest. On the other hand any programmer can learn another language and apply it fairly quickly, but you have to judge that on a case by case basis. A & B are both no win situations if the statements are true and we're put in this situation where we don't know the date the programmer is starting from.
I mean it July and you want it by next Valentines day. The code for such a game is probably not that long and easily programmed so saying you need it by Valentine's is more important than what language it's in.
On the other hand if it's only a week, or even a month before valentines day. A programmer who doesn't know the language would generate many more problems that couldn't be handled by the time it needed to be launched so in that case even though it would be important that deadline is in only, say, a month saying that you need the programmer for whatever language would be better I would think.
It also depends on the game's design. If I'm developing a game that is a romantic game or something of that nature that goes with valentine's day that it must absolutely be released then then it's important to say, but if not who cares, you can push it back.
On the programmer's side I'd think...
It's nice to know how long I'm committed for and it is definitely nice to have a schedule if i have other plans and I think I can fit this in. It tells me how long I have and further if the date is a long time off it tells me i can have input to the design and make sure everything's going alright, but it is also nice to know what language and what I will be developing for, though as I said above it's not too important if I have the time. If I don't know how, I can simply state that I don't know how to develop for that, but I'll learn.
On the other hand if both are true and time is short I would be annoyed that not being in the description, doubly so if i had to figure out a whole new program. And more than likely it would result in a bad partnership and a bad end product.
So I think the best option, I could only say 1, would be that I want it done by Valentine's day, mainly because it would lead to the least aggravation and those who couldn't develop for the console I wanted could be weeded out with the first question after while those with enough time can't be put back in the group. It's pretty basic logic when you think it out...
So my answer to you is A is what I'd put if I had to put only one of those.
I wonder if i got an A on the test :P
Hi, I am sorry to disappoint you but my "Test" was only referring to:
"Could you tell the core concept in a sentence or a paragraph without using any adjective or figurative words? For example:
Tetris:
A 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed. "
I often refer to the comment where you could roughly tell whether a game design is worth working on if it still sounds interesting after all of its themes are stripped and the play time is attached to the description. So I was trying to test this concept by asking you to describe your game in a distilled sentence. I wanted to test whether there is a correlation when someone else other than myself came up with the description.
I didn't mean to "test" your ability. I was asking for help on something I wanted to verify.
Otherwise I think what you said about the three options were true. And if you were to post something on the Help Wanted part you would have to post pretty much all three. I think all three were quite important. I think the choice of programming language is important. I don't think that this is generally assumed: "any programmer can learn another language and apply it fairly quickly." Even if a programmer can learn another language, it doesn't mean that they want to do so for your project. Some programmers won't want to code in a certain language even if they know it. If the language is not important for the game design you could let the programmer pick. I don't have any more to say about the topic otherwise.
"Could you tell the core concept in a sentence or a paragraph without using any adjective or figurative words? For example:
Tetris:
A 5-minute game on arranging shapes falling at increasing speed. "
I often refer to the comment where you could roughly tell whether a game design is worth working on if it still sounds interesting after all of its themes are stripped and the play time is attached to the description. So I was trying to test this concept by asking you to describe your game in a distilled sentence. I wanted to test whether there is a correlation when someone else other than myself came up with the description.
I didn't mean to "test" your ability. I was asking for help on something I wanted to verify.
Otherwise I think what you said about the three options were true. And if you were to post something on the Help Wanted part you would have to post pretty much all three. I think all three were quite important. I think the choice of programming language is important. I don't think that this is generally assumed: "any programmer can learn another language and apply it fairly quickly." Even if a programmer can learn another language, it doesn't mean that they want to do so for your project. Some programmers won't want to code in a certain language even if they know it. If the language is not important for the game design you could let the programmer pick. I don't have any more to say about the topic otherwise.
Author
According to the Game Design book I have, that I picked up years ago, that's written by Bob Bates, says that a game's high concept should tell you all about what someone will doing and such in a sentence or two.
Which I understand as time is important and the producers of games get tons of these things, but I also see a problem with it for someone that's a good writer and something like an RPG. I can write fairly long sentences and without background an RPG would seem to mundane and boring.
I also find it amusing that this would be the hardest genre to create a "high concept" for and it just so happens that the book doesn't give any sort of example for it. They give one for most of the others though.
BUT I can do that with just about everything...I just found I got bad grade for it and stopped doing it >.> after high school of course :D
Which I understand as time is important and the producers of games get tons of these things, but I also see a problem with it for someone that's a good writer and something like an RPG. I can write fairly long sentences and without background an RPG would seem to mundane and boring.
I also find it amusing that this would be the hardest genre to create a "high concept" for and it just so happens that the book doesn't give any sort of example for it. They give one for most of the others though.
BUT I can do that with just about everything...I just found I got bad grade for it and stopped doing it >.> after high school of course :D
Quote:If I'm new to game development and...
If I'm a writer, I can show you a script.
If I'm an artist, I can show an image I've drawn.
If I'm a programmer, I can show you a program I have made.
If I am a Game Designer, I can't do anything because the one way I can doesn't exist.
It sounds to me that you want to get a team together of people you don't know to work on your project and you want to somehow hold up your design skils to show you're serious and get them to follow you. Am I on the mark here? If so, Consider developing leadership skills by involving yourself in other people's projects and observing what works and what doesn't. If all you have are design skills then you are at a disadvantage for getting people volunteering time for your project. But if you can show that you have experience managing a team then you may have better luck. If you feel you have no hope of ever developing coding, writing, or drawing skills, then I might suggest taking a stab at quality assurance as a way of wiggling into a team and then see if they can involve you in some project management.
Dura wrote:
>I can't tell you and I can't show you my experience as a world designer if I'm a beginner how do I get people that want see what I can do to work with me?
You've gone off on a tangent from my advice. Your OQ was what you should tell a prospective collaborator on an indy game project. My advice included that you tell him what your experience level is.
>I do that all the time, but that's really ineffective when someone goes, "what's your experience" and you say "come look at this game...this this and this is wrong"
No, you don't have to show anything. In your instance, the truthful answer to "what's your experience level" is "I'm a beginner. This'll be my first project." I said before, you have to be truthful if you want others to trust you. Because the truth is bound to come out.
>It might work for certain jobs
You went off on another tangent. Are you now talking about applying for a job? Because that's a very different matter, and a very large topic. Can't we stick to one question at a time? Still trying to get you the answer to your OQ.
>Which I understand as time is important and the producers of games get tons of these things
Here you were talking about "high concepts" - a short (one sentence or less) description of a game. Game designers and game producers are often asked to come up with short descriptions of the current game project. A designer and a producer always have to write one-sentence, one-paragraph, and one-page descriptions, targeted to a specific audience. It's all part of the process. But we've gone far afield from the OQ, and I don't know if you've yet understood the answer to that.
>I can't tell you and I can't show you my experience as a world designer if I'm a beginner how do I get people that want see what I can do to work with me?
You've gone off on a tangent from my advice. Your OQ was what you should tell a prospective collaborator on an indy game project. My advice included that you tell him what your experience level is.
>I do that all the time, but that's really ineffective when someone goes, "what's your experience" and you say "come look at this game...this this and this is wrong"
No, you don't have to show anything. In your instance, the truthful answer to "what's your experience level" is "I'm a beginner. This'll be my first project." I said before, you have to be truthful if you want others to trust you. Because the truth is bound to come out.
>It might work for certain jobs
You went off on another tangent. Are you now talking about applying for a job? Because that's a very different matter, and a very large topic. Can't we stick to one question at a time? Still trying to get you the answer to your OQ.
>Which I understand as time is important and the producers of games get tons of these things
Here you were talking about "high concepts" - a short (one sentence or less) description of a game. Game designers and game producers are often asked to come up with short descriptions of the current game project. A designer and a producer always have to write one-sentence, one-paragraph, and one-page descriptions, targeted to a specific audience. It's all part of the process. But we've gone far afield from the OQ, and I don't know if you've yet understood the answer to that.
Author
Tom, the original question has not been moved away from, but stated differently.
As far as I can tell if you are a primarily looking to be a designer, you have no recourse whatsoever. If you say you are a beginner as a designer you are ignored. Which is understandable to a degree, but I think the current model of "if you want to be a game designer you have to be a programmer or something else first" is really stupid and it is why so many bad games exist. People who can do the job the best and focus on it are ignored and/or looked over for those who are primarily other things.
I do agree that a game designer should have other skills, but they shouldn't have that as their primary and then get promoted into it. It would be like
Anyways, as the text above is stated the answer to the question above is simply "go be something else first"
As far as I can tell if you are a primarily looking to be a designer, you have no recourse whatsoever. If you say you are a beginner as a designer you are ignored. Which is understandable to a degree, but I think the current model of "if you want to be a game designer you have to be a programmer or something else first" is really stupid and it is why so many bad games exist. People who can do the job the best and focus on it are ignored and/or looked over for those who are primarily other things.
I do agree that a game designer should have other skills, but they shouldn't have that as their primary and then get promoted into it. It would be like
Anyways, as the text above is stated the answer to the question above is simply "go be something else first"
This topic is closed to new replies.
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