Hello everyone, I am coding a 2d fighting game with simple graphics and would like to know what do you think are the main problems and what features do most 2d fighting games lack? I personally think they are too unreal and there's lack of flow between the techniques and also am not a big fan of having to memorize a series of buttons in order to perform a special attack. What are your thoughts? Any suggestions/ideas/opinions are appreciated.

3D fighters have the problem of long button combos to do basic things. MK is the only one that really has this problem in 2D.

MvC2 is probably the best most flowing and simple to pick up fighter so you might want to take a few ques from that.

Quote:Original post by Alpha Nox
...what do you think are the main problems and what features do most 2d fighting games lack?

2D fighting games don't have problems. They're easy to understand and straightforward to play, yet capable of tremendous depth. The problem is when the characters are not well designed/balanced - awkward move lists that don't flow into each other, excessively long button sequences, prohibitive favorites that make certain characters useless - or game features that make players too defensive and avoid engaging. Most iterations of popular 2D fighting game series (Marvel vs Capcom, Capcom vs SNK, Mortal Kombat, Fatal Fury, Samurai Showdown, King of Fighters and, of course, Street Fighter) have been perceived as good games that made interesting adjustments to their series formulas.

Quote:I personally think they are too unreal and there's lack of flow between the techniques and also am not a big fan of having to memorize a series of buttons in order to perform a special attack.

Elaborate on your thoughts. Tell us more about how you'd like to see them play.

Quote:Original post by Oluseyi

Quote:Original post by Alpha Nox
...what do you think are the main problems and what features do most 2d fighting games lack?

2D fighting games don't have problems. They're easy to understand and straightforward to play, yet capable of tremendous depth. The problem is when the characters are not well designed/balanced - awkward move lists that don't flow into each other, excessively long button sequences, prohibitive favorites that make certain characters useless - or game features that make players too defensive and avoid engaging. Most iterations of popular 2D fighting game series (Marvel vs Capcom, Capcom vs SNK, Mortal Kombat, Fatal Fury, Samurai Showdown, King of Fighters and, of course, Street Fighter) have been perceived as good games that made interesting adjustments to their series formulas.

Quote:I personally think they are too unreal and there's lack of flow between the techniques and also am not a big fan of having to memorize a series of buttons in order to perform a special attack.

Elaborate on your thoughts. Tell us more about how you'd like to see them play.

I believe I didn't express myself correctly. By 'problems' I meant what could be improved not actual problems.

About the unrealism, I think it would be interesting to have a game with more accurate martial arts moves and closer to reality characters(not a 3 meters Zangief for instance).

The main point regarding realism I want to achieve would be a better or at least different combat system, not using the traditional 'fierce/strong/weak' punch and kick and hold backwards to block as I find it very limited.

I ask about your thoughts regarding such games because the ideas I have for a combat system are not clear yet. I basically want the game to look like a real fight with the character's moves interconnecting themselves and allowing a large amount of variations.

Quote:Original post by Alpha Nox
About the unrealism, I think it would be interesting to have a game with more accurate martial arts moves and closer to reality characters(not a 3 meters Zangief for instance).

Interesting. I don't think "realistic" characters are more fun. I don't even think they look better, personally - I prefer the stylized visuals of the Street Fighter series over the digitized photographs of Mortal Kombat, but opinions vary.

Quote:The main point regarding realism I want to achieve would be a better or at least different combat system, not using the traditional 'fierce/strong/weak' punch and kick and hold backwards to block as I find it very limited.

Try it out in a prototype, see if it works.

Quote:I ask about your thoughts regarding such games because the ideas I have for a combat system are not clear yet. I basically want the game to look like a real fight with the character's moves interconnecting themselves and allowing a large amount of variations.

Well, first of all, real world fights are not rhythmic 60 second bouts in which the opponents display good form. Even the "sissified" fights of the Olympic games (Tae Kwon Do, for instance) are much messier than a video game. In the real world, most fights are over very quickly, or exhibit a ragged pacing - 30 seconds of fierce grappling and punching followed by 10 minutes of posturing and hurling insults, then it boils over again to clawing and kicking for 45 seconds...

You need more than just "realism" as a hook. You need to paint a picture for people. Despite what you've written so far, I still have no idea how you envision your game looking and playing - and I wonder if even you do.

The second problem is that "large amount of variations" can be a difficult design and programming challenge. I wonder how you propose to solve it.

Quote:Original post by Oluseyi

Quote:Original post by Alpha Nox
About the unrealism, I think it would be interesting to have a game with more accurate martial arts moves and closer to reality characters(not a 3 meters Zangief for instance).

Interesting. I don't think "realistic" characters are more fun. I don't even think they look better, personally - I prefer the stylized visuals of the Street Fighter series over the digitized photographs of Mortal Kombat, but opinions vary.

Quote:The main point regarding realism I want to achieve would be a better or at least different combat system, not using the traditional 'fierce/strong/weak' punch and kick and hold backwards to block as I find it very limited.

Try it out in a prototype, see if it works.

Quote:I ask about your thoughts regarding such games because the ideas I have for a combat system are not clear yet. I basically want the game to look like a real fight with the character's moves interconnecting themselves and allowing a large amount of variations.

Well, first of all, real world fights are not rhythmic 60 second bouts in which the opponents display good form. Even the "sissified" fights of the Olympic games (Tae Kwon Do, for instance) are much messier than a video game. In the real world, most fights are over very quickly, or exhibit a ragged pacing - 30 seconds of fierce grappling and punching followed by 10 minutes of posturing and hurling insults, then it boils over again to clawing and kicking for 45 seconds...

You need more than just "realism" as a hook. You need to paint a picture for people. Despite what you've written so far, I still have no idea how you envision your game looking and playing - and I wonder if even you do.

The second problem is that "large amount of variations" can be a difficult design and programming challenge. I wonder how you propose to solve it.

I am having a hard time trying to describe my ideas as they are not so clear yet. I will give it some thought and hopefully come out with something more concrete as I am not entirely sure what I really want in it.

And, ah, the fun lies in trying to solve such challenges. =)

#1. Street Fighter esque games are popular because it is easy and fun
#2. what you are describing as flowing can't be done without all that complexity because martial arts doesn't allow for it really.
#3. There is a game that is somewhat like that... Battle Arena Toshinden is based off this i think.

Fighting skill, whether it's 2D or 3D, should not be about:
- Memorizing button sequences or move lists
- Executing smooth half circles
- Finger->Button reflexes

Fighting skill should be about:
+ Identifying and thwarting your opponent's current strategy
+ Anticipating your opponent's actions
+ Perception->Decision->Action reflexes

Just about everything else should be eased by the game as much as possible. That's assuming a two player match. Single player fighting against the computer is a slightly different deal. For example, it's not too bad to learn (or even acquire) new moves as you go when you're fighting slightly tougher opponents each match. But for a great player versus player match, both players need to know all of the technical details before the fight begins.

You don't seem to know your subject well and are miffed about the fact that you are not skilled at it, or at least that is what it seems. Those smooth half circles, quick button pushes, button sequences are about skill and strategy. As someone that has fought in real life and has played fighters against people who are on the world level of competition i can tell you they are pretty similar in the experience. What you are describing would take a person out and away from that experience.

Quote:Original post by Durakken
You don't seem to know your subject well and are miffed about the fact that you are not skilled at it, or at least that is what it seems.

I'm guessing this was directed at me, but I'm not sure I follow. You think I know little about fighting games, and so post some nonsense to work out my rage?

Quote:Those smooth half circles, quick button pushes, button sequences are about skill and strategy.

No, those are used to execute strategy. They may be considered skill in some games, but that's not the type of skill that I enjoy winning fights with. Back when I frequented the arcades, I used to go out of my way to teach newcomer opponents how to control their character better before the fight started. The best fights are fights between players who have mastered the game's controls. Therefore, it makes sense to make it easier to master the game's controls.