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Metal Typhoon

DirectX or OpenGL ....

25 posts in this topic

I''ve posted a topic here in wich says , which is best c++ builder or vc++ ? they from that i got most of the answers vc++. K , now i''l start in vc++. For this topic now i would like to know which API is best touse in GAMES , DirectX or OpenGL. From some resources i know that OpenGL is way better than DX ,right ? So what u guys think about that ? "The shortcut is not always the best way " Metal Typhoon
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OpenGL''s future isnt 100% secure, Epic Games (Unreal makers), id Software (quake), have both announced they are going to be switching to D3D. Also nVidia is starting to move more towards direct3d then opengl. But, if opengl were to die out, it wouldnt be for a couple of years.

It comes down to preference really, check out NeHe, and NeXe (or DirectX sdk), see which programming style you like and go from there. The concepts and some of the code are very similar with the 2 api''s, so if you did pick opengl and it died out (which it probally wont any time soon), you could very easily learn d3d.
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There is little to know diffrence between OpenGL and DirectX.

DirectX:

Has input, sound, video, and other things integrated into the api along with 2d and 3d graphics interfaces.

OpenGL:

Cross platform, Graphics only.

Other than that, the only diffrence now is pretty much function names.
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I asked this same question about 2 months ago, and almost every reply I got said "it doesnt matter use what you are comfortable with". I also got "learn them both", I agree with the last statement. The future of and API is uncertain. OpenGL is going to be around for a long time still, plus if you know them both you should have no problem getting a job. Plus once you learn one the other is easy. I''ve been learning DX lately cause its in a book that i have, but I was looking at some OPenGL and it doesnt seem to entirely different. For now all I can say is pick one and go for it then learn the other.

"There is humor in everything depending on which prespective you look from."
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Neither one is better, plain and simple. As for idsfotware switching over. I dont know where you heard that, but John Carmack NEVER said he was switching over. He did say D3D is getting better but he still likes opengl better. All it boils down to is which YOU find easier to use and what suits YOUR needs. OpenGL is used in more than just games too. It was developed for applications such as medical imaging, CAD, etc. Just recently people started to use it for games. So its future is not in any harm. Also OpenGL version 1.3 is due pretty soon. (hopefully soon) Some people prefer D3D because the like OOP and COM. Some people like opengl better becasue they like the ''C'' way of doing things. Personally i use OpenGL more than D3D but the reason for that is becasue i know OpenGL better.

So my suggestion is learn a little of both. Then from there, figure out which you prefer and go with it. Also as a side note, most 3d graphics programming job applications (well for games and such i know) they usually want both. Most will say you should know one very well but if you know the other then that is a plus. So it wont hurt knowing both.

And some video card drivers work better with say D3d or they may work better with OpenGL. So if you know both and could have the opetion for both in your game, then this will satisfy the user since they can now choose the API which runs best for them.

Well thats my 2 cents.

-SirKnight
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id Software said they were going to be using d3d in their future games in a press release that came out about a month before DX8 came out.
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Well.. I don''t quite understand how OpenGL could fade away, given than it''s the only API used for 3D applications (Maya, 3DS Max, and probably AutoCAD etc).

If it is to disappear, I guess it will be replaced by another portable API, since most high end 3D workstations are SGI (and many rendering servers as well). I don''t think MS will port DX to all the Unix for all hardware platforms... So my bet is that OpenGL will either remain or be replaced by another portable API.

Metal Typhoon : I think the replies here summed it up : learn both of them. OpenGL is very easy and Direct Graphics is almost as easy.
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Ok , i''ll try to learn both of them. But here comes my question . Wich on should i learn first ? I mean if i learn Opengl first would it be easy to learn Direct3d after ? or Direct3d first and then OpenGL ?

"The shortcut is not always the best way "

Metal Typhoon
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I still dont beleive John Carmack would change from OpenGL to d3d. Give me a link that says this. The new doom engine is using OpenGL for one. Also OpenGL has a more powerfull vertex program (shaders) setup than d3d and OpenGL''s texture shaders with Regisister combiners are more powerfull than d3d''s pixel shaders. If you dont beleive me then ask the nvidia guys at the opengl.org message board. Knowing that, there is no way a guy like John would switch to d3d. I just dont buy it. I read everything that comes out of idsoftware and i would know if they were switching.

-SirKnight
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Your not going to get muchunbiased opinions from these people just use the one you find the most documentation on !
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But i find the same amount in documentation on both. What did you started with ? And most developers in game bussiness use what ? I know that Square use DIrectX but in other hand Id use Opengl. Man this is hard thing !!!! please if u know help a newbie.

"The shortcut is not always the best way "

Metal Typhoon
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I think GL is a little easier to start with if you are not familiar with COM and or OOP. You just need to understand how to make C API calls. With DX, you kind of need to at least understand what an interface is. I started teaching myself OpenGL awhile ago, and somewhere along the way got stalled. I recently picked up dx8, fell in love with it, and am using it for my current project. The folks at Microsoft have made things a lot easier, though it still is more complex than GL.


-andy
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SirKnight,
I didnt say anything about John Carmack, i said id Software. Carmack is lead programmer and owner of id software, not the only programmer. No game is made by one person, thats not how this business works. Anyway its not a big deal if or if they dont switch. OpenGL being stronger for certain things.. we arent talking about video hardware, the strength of an api is determined solely by the strength of the programmer.

MetalTyphoon,
Most Game Businesses use Direct 3d, few use OpenGL. Some support OpenGL as well, for compatability issues.

Here is a couple of examples..

Games that use d3d primarily:
Thief
Thief 2
System Shock 2
Rainbow Six
Rogue spear
and many many more

Games that use opengl primarily:
GLQuake
Quake 2
Quake 3A
MDK (uses q3a engine)
and a couple of others

Games that use Glide primarily (all of the following support d3d as well, though made for glide):
Everquest
Unreal (uses unreal engine, supports ALL api's)
Unreal Tournament (uses unreal engine, supports ALL api's)
Rune (uses unreal engine, supports ALL api's)
Deus Ex (uses unreal engine, supports ALL api's)

As for what I started with, i dont remember. I learned both OpenGL and D3D simultaneously (well, as close to simultaneous as a human can be.) Which do i use now? Direct3d mostly. Its more convenient to not have to switch between 2 api's while programming, because i use DInput, Dsound, ect. for the other aspects of game programming.

What i suggest for you is to go to Barnes and Noble, head to the programming section, and pick out a bunch of D3D/DirectX and opengl books, flip through them, look at the pictures and code, read a little bit, and find out which one you like better (and if need be pick up a cup of coffee and read through a couple of chapters of the books). Most people here treat this business as a religion, rather then what it is, and thats where flames come from and the whole "OpenGL is better! No, D3d is better!". ANYTHING you can do in either API you can do in the other one with the same speed/efficiency aslong as you program right. Neither is more powerful then the other.

theres my 2 cents.

Edited by - BenHanson on June 26, 2001 8:15:54 PM
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Oh my... I decided that i''ll start with DirectX/Direct3D for games then i''ll learn OpenGL. And am i chosing the right IDE ? Vc++ ? or boland is better ?

"The shortcut is not always the best way "

Metal Typhoon
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Not even borland c++ builder 5 can bet vc++ ?

"The shortcut is not always the best way "

Metal Typhoon
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Looking at DirectX8 (specially it''s Direct Graphics), it looks a lot more like OpenGL now. So I think both DX and OGL are getting similar. I never know DX Programming before DX8, and I''ve been learning OGL because its easier (and playable with my Delphi).

So Don''t be afraid those two things are getting close to similar now. Just click the Direct3D ports Link at NeHe and learn both codes (the D3D and OGL codes simultaneously), you''ll know what I mean. (or Its because my OGL background)
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Ak37 is right, both API are very close now . I support both API in my engine and the code is so similar, it is spooky, but it is now VERY easy to support both API.

Time is the only reason not to do it.

Though, you write more code in D3D than Opengl to do something.


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If you''d like to hear my 2 cents, well read on, I guess.
I think both API''s are pretty much the same in terms of functionality, but if you are considering programming for platforms other than just Windows (ie Mac, Linux, Unix, FreeBSD etc) then OpenGL is the way to go because you don''t need to make any changes for your code to run on other platforms. Xbox will support some varient of DirectX, but we all know that MS is imfamous for making last minute API changes. I think that it won''t be too long until there is OpenGL for the Xbox (I know that there is a project to port it to PS2 already). So if you want to be a crossplatform programmer, use OpenGl for the renderer & something like SDL for input & sound. SDL has almost no overhead & allow games to run on Linux & Windows. I''m a linux programmer, so I use OpenGL & try to keep Uncle Bill unhappy as often as possible.

Cheers
Brad
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Cool dude !!!!! thanks that''s what i was looking for !

"The shortcut is not always the best way "

Metal Typhoon
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Good. Hopefully this thread dies then as I don''t really care for it myself. I will let this thread live so long as it doesn''t digress into personal attacks, etc. Any other threads remotely similar to this will be redirected to this thread and the aforementioned closed at the very least and more than likely deleted.

I''m hoping after this thread is a gazillion replies long everyone will see how pointless these types of post are. (You could be learning one, the other, or both instead of posting what you/everyone else could/should be learning/using)

YAP-YFIO
-deadlinegrunt
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Microsoft Visual C++ is way better than Borland C++. Why? Borland well, im not totaly sure of this but I belive it compiles junk into your code. VC++, i know for a fact compiles straight foward must have stuff, nothing else. I also belive VC++ is a faster compiler. VC++ is the way to go for gaming, or any type of programming. Borland, for application, COM, database. defently NOT for gaming. :D
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