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Don't Buy "3d game engine egine"!!! unless...

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Here is a tip to all 3d coders. DONT BUY THAT BOOK: "3d game engine degine" unless you are writing your phd thesis. That book will f*ck your mind. If you are learning 3d graphics to write an engine or a program, dont get that book. That book is for people who are good at writing engines, so that they can be uber-knowledgable. That book is a de-motivator, because if you don''t know better you would think that to "truly" learn 3d graphics you would have to know the stuff in that book. It is a waste of time and energy if you are learning to apply, and not just learning to know. I am not going to tell you where to go, because that isnt what this post is about. I am telling you where not to go. good luck. Reality Makes Me XIC I hack code: passion is my feul. Use my programs, experience genius. http://www.x-i-c.com/

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Yeah, if your expecting a "do a game engine book" this isnt it!
And, i though the book would talk about Engine design.... "errr!" Wrong! Its just a book with a lot of function(wich are not that well explained btw)

the good thing, well the book comes with a complete 3d engine for free(well supositly,, i havend look for it yet)

its more of a "See whats in my engine and put my code in your game" type of book.


its an advance book for ppl that want to make more out of their engines. The book sould be called "3D engine. look what I did"
:D

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I thought the book was great. The notation is a bit odd, and takes sometime getting used to. It''s definately not for beginners though.



Joseph Fernald
Software Engineer
Red Storm Entertainment.
------------------------
The opinions expressed are that of the person posting
and not that of Red Storm Entertainment.

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Yess, man, as a matter of Fact I say that that code should be available to all of us without having to pay 70 bux. If anyone has the code (just the code) that his book is based on, drop a reply and leave your email, or just send to code to me jmarskoder@x-i-c.com. only the code not all the gfx, or wavs, and stuff. Coders Unite! Coders should not be exploited!

Reality Makes Me XIC
I hack code: passion is my feul. Use my programs, experience genius.
http://www.x-i-c.com/

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Giving away the code on the CD would be a direct violation of the licence given to the user when they purchased the book. Hence it would be illegal. I paid my money for the book and found it quite useful. Sorry you didn''t feel the same...

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Guest Anonymous Poster
yeah I''m tired of all the communists too. "exploiting coders" ha, dude where do you think your paycheck is going to come from? You can''t eat code. Giving away code is a good thing, stealing code is a bad thing. I think it''s time you figured out the difference.

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Yes, I am perfectly happy with my copy of the book. Maybe yours was misprinted?

I admit, the title is a bit misleading. It''s not really about ''design'', but it is a fairly Succinct collection of the little bits and pieces that are hard to find. Where else can you find a hard bound container of all of your 3d intersection math, optimizations of them, perspective texture projection, quadtree discussion, complete quaternion/vector/matrix explanation, and a general OOP hirearchy for a 3d engine?

I think you were just too intimidated by the book. Sure, 70 bones is a lot (and I didn''t eat for a week because of it), but I certainly don''t regret having bought it.

Give it some time. Maybe you were in over your head, but it is a valuable book.

Thank you for your bandwidth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~Succinct Demos Online~
I am a software engineer who writes poetic code!

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I sort of agree with the original poster, or at least his reasoning for saying what he does. I would add that the book is worth having amongst your collection of books though.

Unless you are a PhD in Mathematics then don''t have this alone though. It''s far too complicated. I''m glad the author understands it but he seems to make the presumption that every games programmer will too. Unfortunately even the average pro will be lost amongst that lot so don''t get too concerned.

Be aware as well that some of the mathematical listings are way over the top and many games programmers use much simplified code. Also be aware that in some cases the code and maths are wrong and don''t actually work.


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If you haven''t taken Calculus or are uncomfortable with mathamatical notation this book is not for you. If you have this book is a goldmine of 3D math, tips and tricks. The author of this book is one of the creator of Netimmerse. He knows what he is talking about. If you had looked in they book and realized what it was before you bought it you would have saved yourself $70. My favorite part of the book was Collision Detection and Lighting. His explanations are clear and consise. The mathamatical formulas are also included. It is no more complex than a book on quaternions or other upper level math and is less expensive. This book fills a large void that is left between the "look I can draw on the screen books" and books like real time rendering that focus on specific topics. Thats what I have to say.

InFerN0

Not all who wander are lost...

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I think this is one of the most useful 3d books on the market. I learn something every time I open it.

I agree that there are some underexplained mathematics in this book. However, most is linear algebra and 3d calc, and is possible to figure out after a few minutes. Nearly all the remaining difficult math are proofs that are not critical to an implementation.


Mike

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Eraserhead:
Maybe you have a different edition of the book, because, in my book, which is open in my lap right now, pages 369 through 397 are all about quadtrees. Sure, only page 369 actually says "Quadtrees" (during the discusson on terrain topology), but the rest of the pages describe other necessary parts of the algorithm, such as vertex-based simplification (with possible optimizations if you can make a few assumptions), block-based simplification (and the optimizations for those same assumptions), vertex dependencies (very necessary for the actual implementation), block rendering, and finally, an overview of the entire algorithm in pseudo-code.

What the heck more could you want? The source code? An sudden moment of clarity where, all of a sudden, by buying the book, something magic happens and you suddenly understand a concept like this? The actual concept behind quadtrees is very simple and elegant, and it can be summed up in a paragraph, but the implementation is far more complex.

I implemented my entire quadtree terrain render (for my 3-d engine that I am being paid to write) from this book alone. So, don''t "ehem" me w/o doing your homework, ok? If you couldn''t find the 28 pages on quadtrees in a book that only has 560 pages, how do you find your underwear in your drawer in the morning?

For all of you guys complaining about the book:
You really should look at a book before you drop 70 bones on it. I mean, I''ve never been to a book store that doesn''t let you browse through the pages before actually purchasing the book. Did you go from a friend''s opinion and order the book online? Well, you''d better get as up to speed as your friends then.

This book was never advertised as a book for newbies.

Quote from JmarsKoder
"That book is a de-motivator, because if you don''t know better you would think that to "truly" learn 3d graphics you would have to know the stuff in that book."

What is your definition of "truly" learning? Heh, I''m of the opinion that in order to really implement a good engine, you truly need to know most of the concepts in this book. Do you think Carmack did it just by "learning to apply, and not just learning to know"?

Get your head out of ur arse and go learn some calculus.

-- Succinct

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Shit, i''ll take that rant down, I''ll be honest I dont know much about the api''s that is availibe for 3d stuff, but I could care less wtf you think, or anybody. F crediblity, you want crediblity look at the code i write.

Reality Makes Me XIC
I don''t do spelling, I hack code: passion is my feul. Use my programs, experience genius.
http://www.x-i-c.com/

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JmarsKoder:
I would say, judging from your code and its judicious use of BORLAND C++ BUILDER, that you rely on pre-programmed libraries and other people''s RAD tools for your everyday development due to a lack of understanding of the medium.

Any credibility you hoped to gain by telling me to look at your code has just gone out the window. I''d place you slightly above a VB "coder" now, but not much. I''m sure all of your friends are scripters who plug and chug other peoples examples.

It''s no wonder you don''t like Eberly''s book. You would actually have to learn something for yourself in order to get anything out of it.

If you''ve been a "1337 koder" since at least 1999 (as your site says), Eberly''s book shouldn''t be that hard to grasp.

I am sorry there is no VCL component for an OpenGL window. I know that being able to point and click your way into an HGLRC would make it a lot easier on you, hence your reliance on GLUT.

Go learn some real C/C++. Go learn some calculus/analytical geometry. Go learn some target APIs. Then, when you grow up, we can go out to play nicely together. Until then, leave those of us who have actually progressed as programmers alone and don''t tell us which books are good and which aren''t.

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Look you presumptuous ass. You must have just read the code that i hack up for a quick fix purposes, hide 2.0 had some sweet classes that I constructed from scratch, of course re-inventing the wheel which I know is a bad idea.I hate windows api code. I try to write ansi code that can be portable. I have good reason to hate win32 api, because I learned it, 1.5 years ago. I forgot it now. I''ve written some small experimental 3d engines, but I know nothing about the Gfx Api''s that is availible for Win32. Now look you want to see code. Look at my scripting language that I wrote 100% from scratch. I didn''t use those tuts that tell you " use lex, use yacc, have them generate automatically your parsers and scanners" No because I have a serious problem with having outside code in my programs, so i wrote my on lexer and scanner. When I code I obsessively try to have all the code be "mine." Now look I dont f**king know you. but from the looks of it, you must be a dumb p.o.s. I remember when I was young and a newbie, when I though I knew shit, i used to try and flame people, you poor baby, look go to your mommy and get your bottle so it can shut you up. I have nothing to prove to you. You can do and say what ever you want, then jack of to 10 year old boys for all i care. I still think glut is sweet, and when I am done learning opengl maybe I will write my own API, bitch. I hate bcb, and windows api gui, i hate vcl, mfc, and all those, f**king precoded shits, and I especially hate, 2 year old, cry babies, like your ass. Thanks you for having no life, and taking the time to read my code, so I can see how pathetic you are.

Reality Makes Me XIC
I don''t do spelling, I hack code: passion is my feul. Use my programs, experience genius.
http://www.x-i-c.com/

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