U.N. banning religious criticism

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Started by soconne February 26, 2009 11:35 AM

103 comments, last by xenopusRTRT 15 years, 1 month ago

1,708

February 26, 2009 05:22 PM

Quote:Original post by Guthur
Facism is banned in pretty much every country for having unrestrained hatred/criticism of certain groups, but also ironically would be the first to ban criticism.

A) Define Fascism,
B) explain how it is different from socialism.

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MSW

151

February 26, 2009 06:10 PM

Quote:Original post by capn_midnight
Quote:Original post by Guthur
Facism is banned in pretty much every country for having unrestrained hatred/criticism of certain groups, but also ironically would be the first to ban criticism.

A) Define Fascism,
B) explain how it is different from socialism.

Merriam-Webster defines Fascism as:
1: A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

Same source defines Socialism as:
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Big key differnence is nationalism, which isn't to be confused with government.

Fascism is typicaly considered right-wing, Socialism is typicaly considered left-wing.

My deviantART: http://msw.deviantart.com/

Guthur

101

February 26, 2009 06:15 PM

Capn: I'll say in first that in my opinion that neither political ideal is inheritily bad its that there implementations always leave a lot to be desired; I think that this might be because, in true Orwellian fashion, every system needs an enemy, it just makes things easier I'd imagine.

Facism and Communism are very similar, both considered the extremes of either side of a left and right political spectrum. Socialism does not equal Communism, as we have seen already, with banks and other key institutes, they are all still fundamental underwritten by the government socialist or not, they hold the last buck so to speak.

But before we go off on a political discussion, my only reason for the facism name drop was the tendency for intolerance to 'others', Communism pretty much welcomes all, whether you want to or not is a different question :p.

Innovation not reiterationIf at any point I look as if I know what I'm doing don't worry it was probably an accident.

LessBread

1,415

February 26, 2009 06:47 PM

Quote:Original post by crusadingknight
I'm not sure what's going on, but that resolution ("Combating defamation of religions" A/C.3/63/L.22/Rev.1) is listed in the UN records as being passed November 24th, while the article lists the date of passing as December 18th.

Perhaps the vote on the 24th was for a draft version and the vote on the 18th was for a final version. I haven't been able to find a record of that specific vote, but I have found confirmation that the General Assembly met on the 18th of December 2008. Ironically, in a move in a completely different direction: In a First, Gay Rights Are Pressed at the U.N..

As for what you've uncovered about the specifics of the resolution, I'm not surprised that it's much more reasonable than how those seeking to stir up fear and hatred would portray it.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man

crusadingknight

290

February 26, 2009 07:39 PM

Quote:Original post by LessBread
Perhaps the vote on the 24th was for a draft version and the vote on the 18th was for a final version. I haven't been able to find a record of that specific vote, but I have found confirmation that the General Assembly met on the 18th of December 2008.

Well, I managed to find it. It looks like the draft resolution was adopted as-is, except that somewhere between proposing the resolution and adopting it a comma appears to have ended up inside of the adjective clause, rendering it "resulting from defamation of religions, and incitement to religious hatred in general" which obfuscates the meaning. Of course, even if (?) this renders it "Urges all States to provide, within their respective legal and constitutional systems, adequate protection against ... incitement to religious hatred in general", this still makes it subject to the existing legal / constitutional system, a state's discretion of how much protection is "adequate", and what constitutes "incitement to religious hatred in general".

Quote:As for what you've uncovered about the specifics of the resolution, I'm not surprised that it's much more reasonable than how those seeking to stir up fear and hatred would portray it.

It requires political correctness and extreme amounts of weasel words to pass anything through the UN General Assembly; the text of this resolution itself which was amended to mention "irregular" instead of "illegal" immigrants. "Reasonable" is only the first requirement to have a chance to pass the General Assembly.

Zahlman

1,682

February 26, 2009 08:45 PM

I never really understood this Holocaust denial thing. Wouldn't a real anti-Semite acknowledge and take pride in the Holocaust?

LachlanL

508

February 26, 2009 08:58 PM

Quote:Original post by Zahlman
I never really understood this Holocaust denial thing. Wouldn't a real anti-Semite acknowledge and take pride in the Holocaust?

Not the best PR move for convincing others that your movement "ain't such a bad thing", though.

LessBread

1,415

February 26, 2009 08:59 PM

The extra comma does add confusion.

"... adequate protection against acts of hatred, discrimination, intimidation and coercion resulting from defamation of religions[,] and incitement to religious hatred in general,..."

Looking over that again, specifying the cause of the coercion seems out of place. The need to limit to only those ills resulting from defamation etc seems quite odd. Initially, I thought it reasonable to focus on actions rather than words. The added comma does seem to elevate the last clause to the level of an act of hatred while limiting protections against intimidation and coercion to only those resulting from defamation of religion.

I wonder how this resolution would apply in Islamic countries with regards to Israel and Judaism or the Pope and Catholicism? If this resolution is taken to heart in the Islamic world, will it mean that the next time a mullah rallies his followers against Israel by bashing Jews, he will be arrested? I seriously doubt it.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man

Krokhin

218

February 27, 2009 12:03 AM

Quote:Original post by MSW
Same source defines Socialism as:
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Big key differnence is nationalism, which isn't to be confused with government.
Fascism is typicaly considered right-wing, Socialism is typicaly considered left-wing.

For us fascism was almost the same as nasism,and Hitler was "fascist":)
Fascism-political theory of domination and expansion one nation ("race") over all other,using brut force if needed.
Socialism -political theory of struggle workers for their rights against bourgeoisie using legal methods(strike,work in parliament etc.),and gradual transforming of society and state.
Communism -political theory of elimination bourgeoisie over the globe using brut force method -revolution,i.e sharp transforming of society and state.
----
It short,fascism -the unity of one nation against something, socialism/communism- unity of "class" (the all workers over the whole globe,for example) against something.

LessBread

1,415

February 27, 2009 02:19 AM

Fascism Anyone? (aka "The 14 Characteristics of Fascism")

Why Socialism? by Albert Einstein, 1949

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man

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