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Ludichris1

Game Dev Software 101

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Ludichris1    101
Ok, I'm all in a jumble here. There's so many stuff to think about when getting game development software for making 2D games! First you need a game creator, then like a music and sound maker, then a particle system, and then a pixel editor! Have I left anything out!? Heh heh hope not. Anyways, I been searching n' downloading bunches of game creators and pixel editors (I haven't even got those other software I mentioned lol). I was hoping you could steer me the right way. Anyways, here goes: What I'm looking for in a game creator: 1. The ability to make ANY genre of game I want. Be it strategy or be it role-playing. 2. Ok I dunno much about this but... maybe the ability to export to hand-helds? I have no idea if I could just export to an executable and somehow get it into a ROM or whatever without the main program. 3. EASY 2 USE! First, be gone with the scripting and the programming, and take your glob of syntax with you! Second, I don't want to be lost in cyberspace navigating around a weird looking program or that it has stuff I don't understand or half-know about. 4. Under $150. Well, I don't know how much all those other programs would be (and the best is FREE!)... oh and did I leave any program out of the game development software, lol? *phew* I finally have my say. Moving on: What I'm looking for in a pixel editor: 1. Got all the bells n' whistles I'll ~~NEED~~ to make nice art with little art talent hahaha. And not the bells n' whistles that are useless to me. 2. Not an alien. Easy to navigate and easy to understand. 3. Under $60. Again, depends on how much the OTHER software costs. Am I boring you? Harrharr ah well. Ok I downloaded some Demos/Trial Versions of different software(that I haven't really tried out yet lol), and this is what I came up with. Tell me which one is best or if I didn't include a decent one please tell me: Game Creators: 1. Scratch (Just for my future programmin') 2. Game Maker 7 (It is TOO limited n' stuff) 3. Sphere (an RPG maker) 4. RPG Toolkit (another RPG maker) 5. RPG Maker 2003 (ANOTHER RPG maker) 6. RPG Maker XP (yet ANOTHER RPG maker! Oh please note I'm not THAT crazy about 'em) 7. DarkBASIC (Just for my future programmin') 8. Game Editor (Just maybe. I don't know that much about, and the navigation is a little fuzzy right now, but it might cut the line) 9. Multimedia Fusion 2 (maybe though I don't know what it's capable of. Can it make all genres of games?) LOL I don't have that many 2D game creators here. Anyways, on to pixel editors: Pixel Editors: 1. Character Maker 1999 (I hate that palette thing [at the moment]and it's quite old and limited, but it's free!) 2. Microsoft Paint (pretty much self-explanatory) 3. GIMP (pretty fuzzy to me at the moment. Probably not really good for 2D game I dunno) 4. GraphicsGale (kind of like Character Maker) 5. Pixia (I am stumped on this one. It's a mess!) 6. ArtWeaver (It's like GIMP I think) 7. Paint.NET (Geez how many GIMP clones are there!?) 8. Pixel Editor (It's like an upgraded version of Microsoft Paint) 9. Pro Motion (I here this one is the BEST of the BEST. But I'm kinda confused with it right now. A pixel editors power is only as good as the user understands it) LOL both lists account to 9 softwares each. I never noticed that before.. anyway, tell me when you've got an answer you 'ole Ludichris1's problems! :D EDIT: Oh yeah I almost forgot lol, another game creator is Action Game Maker. Google it ;)

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Joshuad    100
Pretty much what you are saying is that you want to be able to make some kind of amazing game...but you don't want to have to program...and you don't want to be good at art...I'm sorry, it's not going to work like that. Even if you use one of those game makers, you are still going to have to learn their scripting languages. Otherwise you are going to have a game so bland that even you won't want to play it.

As for art, or some type of program that deals with pixels, I'm still not understanding what you mean by a program that doesn't take any artistic talent.

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godsenddeath    182
I agree, the minimal amount of effort you'll have to put forth is learning a game maker's scripting language, because the vast majority of a game is logic, and you can't really implement logic using a drag and drop system.

Honestly it sounds to me like you're being a tad lazy. Game programming is difficult and requires dedication. You can make a game with something like RPG maker, but it's not going to be as good as if you put effort in and made one from scratch.

Also exporting to handhelds is a whole other ballgame.


bottom line, as with everything else in life, you're going to get out what you put in, shortcuts won't get you anywhere.

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Game Maker is much more powerful than I think you think it is. It does take some work though, and you'll need to learn how it's scripting language works.

I haven't tried it, but you might want to try the demo for Torque Game Engine 2D. If you like it, it costs $100. (It says $250, but that's with the source code, which you probably don't care about)

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DaveMS    187
There are no game engines which will make a game as easily as you want to.

If we could grab a game engine, and type in "Make me a RPG with a main character called Rupert who is a dwarf with super human strength, and a huge world full of evil monsters. Done."

That would be pretty cool.

Unfortunately, to make a game, we need to tell the computer what to do.
And we need a programming or scripting language to do that.

And that involves learning. And failing. And learning some more.

And the same with the art.

You want a program to make you some art with out.. you actually creating the art..?

Now that I wish WAS an available option...

I doesn't matter what art package you decide to use, you will need to create the art yourself.

I'm no artist, if I want art, I have to make do with my crappy programmer art, or find someone to do it for me.


What i'm trying to say, both disciplines need work and dedication, whether it's the programming or art, (and i'm including the other creative talents in the "art" category, sound composers etc.)

If you want to get anywhere in game development, pick one of the disciplines and start learning, because you won't get any software to do it for you.

If you want to make a game, and start programming, i know alot of people on the forum would recommend you start with learning python. I've never used it myself, but a huge number of people think it's a good language for beginners, so check it out.





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Tom Sloper    16040
A ludicrous request:

>What I'm looking for in a game creator:
>1. The ability to make ANY genre of game
>2. ... the ability to export to hand-helds?
>3. EASY 2 USE!
>4. Under $150... (and the best is FREE!)...

This is truly ludicrous. Consider:

a. When you say "hand-helds," what do you mean? iPhone AND Blackberry AND DSi AND Game Boy AND Palm AND N-Gage AND Game Gear AND all 2G phones AND all 3G phones...? Or some subset of those? One engine that can support all those platforms without requiring you to do any work is ludicrous. Ludicrous, I say!

b. Power AND ease of use? Ludicrous! The more power you add to a tool, the more complex it must inevitably become. You will learn this, young Grasshopper.

c. Ultimate power and at little or no cost? Hah! Don't make me laugh. Actually, you already have. Anybody who could spend the time and resources to create such a wondrous package would surely want to be compensated fairly for the boon to all gamedom that he had created. Wait for it...

Ludicrous!

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oler1s    585
This kind of a request does beg to be mocked, but I think the person doesn't just understand what it means to make games. Consider a post some time ago, when the OP was looking for game engines:
Quote:
I'm a n00b to this though I've been researching for A WHOLE YEAR!!
Yikes. I mean, it should be pretty clear in a week of good research that either you are going to have to learn to program. Or that you work within some sandbox of a game maker like program.

So perhaps the whole infeasible request is because of the film-movie industry? They have an extremely unrealistic depiction of programming (or hacking, as is commonly shown). Anyway, either you're going to have to eliminate your delusions. Or make games...in your dreams.

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DraganO    160
Quote:
Pixel Editors:
1. Character Maker 1999 (I hate that palette thing [at the moment]and it's quite old and limited, but it's free!)
2. Microsoft Paint (pretty much self-explanatory)
3. GIMP (pretty fuzzy to me at the moment. Probably not really good for 2D game I dunno)
4. GraphicsGale (kind of like Character Maker)
5. Pixia (I am stumped on this one. It's a mess!)
6. ArtWeaver (It's like GIMP I think)
7. Paint.NET (Geez how many GIMP clones are there!?)
8. Pixel Editor (It's like an upgraded version of Microsoft Paint)
9. Pro Motion (I here this one is the BEST of the BEST. But I'm kinda confused with it right now. A pixel editors power is only as good as the user understands it)

To talk a bit about the "Pixel Editor" part of your question (as far as I've seen none of the other posters said anything about that):

I don't think that you are going to need an expensive graphics program, since you can't benefit from their features anyway, if you simply suck at drawing/painting. So you should go for some free software (there are pretty good free ones available).
But you certainly can't expect to create some decent art without putting any effort into it. Maybe take a look at this article.

I don't really know about Character Maker, etc... since I never used it.
But about GIMP: I have to say that I never liked it, I always found it to be quite intricate and I don't think you will be very fond of it if you're looking for simple and easy to use software. But it's still a good graphics programm and free so you should give it at least a try.
You will certainly won't achieve anything in MS Paint if you don't already have super art skills.
I found Paint.NET to be quite straight forward and self explanatory, but also quite powerful. I'd certainly recommend this one to you, if it only would support my graphics tablet properly, I would even prever it over Photoshop.

And BTW those are not "pixel editors", but raster graphics editors.

[Edited by - DraganO on April 30, 2009 1:16:25 AM]

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yaustar    1021
Quote:
There's so many stuff to think about when getting game development software for making 2D games! First you need a game creator, then like a music and sound maker, then a particle system, and then a pixel editor! Have I left anything out!?


(Assuming Windows)
YoYo GameMaker (too limited? I don't think so)
Paint.NET
Audacity

I can't see anything else you need.

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Ludichris1    101
Quote:
Original post by yaustar
Quote:
There's so many stuff to think about when getting game development software for making 2D games! First you need a game creator, then like a music and sound maker, then a particle system, and then a pixel editor! Have I left anything out!?


(Assuming Windows)
YoYo GameMaker (too limited? I don't think so)
Paint.NET
Audacity

I can't see anything else you need.


Yh I have windows. And everybody when I meant I don't have really good art skills, I mean that you could "cheat" by using all those different features in programs like GIMP and Photoshop. I plan taking art classes this summer...

Oh yh and I got a question for YOU! Can you make a strategy game with GameMaker? Huh so? Can ya!? I thought not -_-

I GUESS i should try out paint.net and that torque 2d thing. And try out audacity.

Oh and btw everyone, the reason I'm afeared of programming is because after I looked at sample code of C++! Yh yh I know the other Cs how they look too. MAYBE I could program with DarkBASIC or something lol. But still...

I don't know why I have an interest in game making. Kinda weird lol. It's ... it's ...er it's.... D E S T I N Y!!

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Ezbez    1164
You mention wanting good results without having drawing skills, so I'd recommend this article. Also check out its discussion page where there are some additional ideas on the subject.

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Captain P    1092
Without putting in some actual work, that 'destiny' of yours is just going to collect dust. While game-development can be made easier by certain tools, it's still going to take at least some skill and determination to get anything done.

As for C++, it's not a particularly beginner-friendly language, so I wouldn't bother with that for now. Personally I quite like Python - it's easy to learn and use and still pretty powerful (especially in terms of productivity).


As for not being able to make strategy games with GameMaker, maybe you can't, but others have already done so.

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Winegums    286
I think you need to consider what you actually want to do. The often idealised position of "guy who comes up with ideas for games" doesn't really exist, as far as I know*.

You can be a designer, but that means working within the limits of tools that you're provided, and finding an artist to do art for you.

Or you could be a programmer, find some art, and come up with a game design by yourself.

Or you could be an artist, find a game engine, come up with a design, and implement your art into it.


Whatever path you choose, remember that deciding "I want to make games" isn't even the first step on the path to reaching that goal.


*unless you're super rich, or possibly so well known that your opinion and notoriety carries significant weight (maybe someone like Pete Molleneux, Will Wright, etc. And even they are still accountable to their publishers and stockholders). And of course the famous ones still have to work on the game and work with other people.

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yaustar    1021
Quote:
Original post by Ludichris1
Oh yh and I got a question for YOU! Can you make a strategy game with GameMaker? Huh so? Can ya!? I thought not -_-

You mean an RTS? Sure you can. If I could do it in Games Factory years ago, I am sure you can in GameMaker. Don't forget that GameMaker has its own scripting language and engine.

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Ludichris1    101
*sigh* *sniff*

What about Torque Game Builder? The ONLY problems I've found so far is:
1. Can't export to GBA, DS, PSP. But still, who would lol?
2. TorqueScript. They say it's like C++, but "so much easier," etc.. Would Torque Game Builder be a good choice for me? Oh and which one is easiest: TorqueScript, Python, or BASIC?
By the way, is Game Studio Lite-C a good choice? I think it's a bit degraded but...

Can anyone teach me how to make gradient art? If you go to www.garagegames.com and navigate to Torque Game Builder, you'll see this yellow-orrangish character image. I want to make smooth, nice art AND pixel art I guess.

Anyone got any thoughts on Pro Motion?


Only you guys'/girls' replies can tell me the answers.

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Dirichlet    122
Quote:
Original post by Ludichris1
And everybody when I meant I don't have really good art skills, I mean that you could "cheat" by using all those different features in programs like GIMP and Photoshop. I plan taking art classes this summer...


I thought I sucked at art too, till I discovered the wonders of pre-rendered graphics. Sure, it's one extra program to add to your list (Blender, if you're poor and have morals, like me), but if you want a cheaters method to making high-quality sprites with no talent at all required, it's worth a look.

Here's something I've been working on just tonight: http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9494/shipgtm.png

That model took about 10 minutes to make, the rest is just copy/pasting/resizing in gimp.

As for the long term project, here's a sneak-peek: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7045/newbqy.jpg

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