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Durakken

Need some critiques for a fake MMORPG...

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Ok, this is not for a MMORPG that I plan to make, but rather for a MMORPG that is going to exist in a story I am writing. It's important because it happens in the MMORPG. 2 things to keep in mind. 1. This story takes place in the future where people spend a lot of time playing MMORPGs and are able to do so even while they are sleeping... 2. This is a virtual reality world I don't think anything I've written thus far needs to be backed up by those, but may need so later when I add more stuff. Also this all a bit messy so please bare with it. Party Member Limit = 10 Must have a party of 10 to form a Guild. An alliance is created when 2 guilds come together, the more guilds in the alliance the type and benefits of the alliance changes Character creation... Holo-Id is used to create a in-game form based on the real form of the person Genders can not be changed Physical appearance is determined by manipulating race + tweaking of parameters such as height, weight, muscle mass/tone and various colors. User names are unique Stats are determined by race and then randomly adjusted to a max of 10 User names, physical appearance, race, and gender may be temporarily/permanently altered later through various methods. A class can be obtained at lvl10. Multiple classes may be gotten, but xp to attain the next level increases. Some elite classes are not available until various requirments are met or until later in the game. Stat points are awarded to a player when they reach max xp/# of classes (for example a single classed person may have to gain 100 xp to lvl and would gain StP every time they leveled, while a dual classed person would need 200xp to lvl, but would gain StP at 100xp and when they lvled, effectively making it so they gained two levels in stats making them stronger at x lvl, but also take much more time to achieve that lvl.) Stat points gained when multiclass, for each increment they gain StP for level/# of classes so that if a lvl gives you 10StP and you are dual classed you will gain 5StP at the halfway point and 10 at lvl up. When you are triple classed you would gain 3Stp per 33% of xp bar which would effectively give you 16StP per level rather than 10 for single classing. XP is multiplied by a+a*0.2 (where a equals the number of classes a character has) per class you take on. So if a normal classed person would need 100xp to lvl a dual class would need 220xp and someone with 10 classes would need 1100 to lvl. Skill Points work the same way as Stat points. Skill Points are used to level up various skills that a class may get. Every skill has 3 requirements to learn. Class Level, SkP need to learn, and Pre-Requisit skills. Class level is separate from character level. A class begins to level when it is gained. So a Character may be level 11, with a Warrior lvl of 11, and a thief level of 6. Character level is set back to 0 once their first class is learned, although they keep all stats and equipment from before. This is largely a easthetic thing, but it allows for someone to multiclass and keep all classes the same level rather than having them separated by 1 or more levels if they do no wish it. Level cap is set a 100 initially, however 1024 is the max cap planned for long term Basic Classes Warrior - proficient with all weapons and wear mid to high lvl armor Knight - lance, sword, and shield weapons and wear extreme lvl armor Pirate - Swords and guns with low to mod lvl armor Ninja - Uses a variety of weapons, but mainly tools and traps. they wear none-low lvl armor Monk - uses bare fisted/foot techniques that are as strong as any changable weapon. No-low lvl armor. Swordsman - Only class to be able to use dual swords and wear low to high lvl armor Beast Tamer - They can tame beasts on the field or use beast pets to do their bidding. no-low lvl armor Dragoon - Uses spears, heavy swords, and dragon magic. Able to fly. mid to high lvl armor. Archer - Uses long bows and sniper rifles to pick off enemies from extreme ranges. no-low lvl armor. Ranger - can combo/dual-wield anything but swords. low-mid lvl armor Alchemist - Uses items to create other items or abilities. No-low lvl armor Priest - Uses white magic, often from a diety, to heal and do damage. No-low lvl armor Mage - uses black magic to manipulate the elements and do damage. No-low lvl armor Summoner - Calls forth spirits and elementals to do their bidding. No-low lvl armor Bard - Uses song, dance, and tales to unspire people or deities to raise/lower abilities. No-low lvl armor Necromancer - Animates the dead to do their bidding. No-low lvl armor Psionist - Uses mental abilities to control others or make others see illusions. No-low lvl armor Thief - dual wield daggers, increase drops, sneak/back attacks always critical. low-mid lvl armor Avatar - A person that has been chosen to act on behalf of a deity. Uses heavy weapons, mid to low lvl armor, and can cast white or black magic faster, but weaker than other classes. Rider - Rides on and attacks in conjunction with a mount. mid-extreme lvl armor. [Edited by - Durakken on May 21, 2009 4:59:09 AM]

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So in the future, MMORPGs will be just as dull, except we would play directly through nerve connections?

I wouldn't want to be part of that future...

[Edited by - loufoque on May 21, 2009 11:20:44 AM]

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That's neither helpful nor true.

more than 10 million people play MMORPGs...and in a virtual world you could do just about anything so i can't see how that's dull.

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Quote:
Original post by Durakken
That's neither helpful nor true.
Unfortunately, he is still right.

You have described a pretty standard, present day MMORPG. If this is the future, with true virtual reality, should the gaming experience be more like the Matrix? Why in hell would we want to keep arbitrary concepts such as classes and level caps when we are actually living and breathing within the world?

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To keep things fair, it is after all still a game.

Also the matrix style of 'uploading' knowledge is dangerous...plus I can't imagine it very fun. I would hate to learn that way. Working for things such as stats, skills, and equipment is a much better design.

but if we do away with that there is the other factor of anyone could just bend the rules through their will if it was like that, and in the back story that was originally the case, it was found detrimental to users so the use of virtual reality programs were locked down a bit in how programmers could utilize VR.

Also if this was more like the matrix the story and the setting would be different. More or less the VR and Future aspect is more a plot device for various aspects of the story, but then I also think that MMORPGs with stats and such like this will still be around when we develop VR so regardless it still works even though it is pretty standard fair.

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Re:

I think what they meant was that they don't dig the entire concept of having stats and level, wearing armor, swinging sword, killing monster, getting loots, way of gaming. They are saying that that whole loop would be obsolete.

Perhaps you could state the role of the MMORPG so that people know the context. For example, do you intent it to be a game that is very popular in the future? In that case, the responses you are getting is that the readers won't believe it because it appears dull.

I also think that it is dull, and WOW is dull, FFXI is dull, etc... But people play them. There is a difference between what people that write games want and what people that plays games want. So you could just assert that the population is still there.

I think there are some physiological contradictions if you want to talk about that. Doing a lot of thinking asleep would interfere the normal process of learning. The brain needs sleep to shut down the conscious part to properly learn things and prepare for the thinking activites the next day. So if you make people play game while asleep all night, they would wake up like zombies. In your context, you could have it such that the gaming time is actually only a few minutes, but the experience feels like hours of play.

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Wow, discussing the design on a future game, that's pretty cool. One thing I did pick up from the OP which I did like, which is not at all special for the future is the idea of choosing classes at level 10. I don't know if this has been done, I don't in general play MMOGs, but my few experiences tend to have you choosing classes at the start. By waiting until level 10, you let the player see what he enjoys.

For a future MMORPG, you might want to read the Chris Egan book "Permutation City" which is what I personally think anything set in the future would be like. I agree in principal with the other repliers, that a MMOG in the future would be hugely different to current titles, with basically anything possible. I suppose it does depend how far in the future. In 50 years time, whilst it is conceivable we could control a virtual character with nerves, it is unlikely that things like sever requirements will no longer exist. 500 years in the future, and it is unlikely that the RPG would be anything like we see today, things like fishing or theft may well be a thing of the past. A fantasy setting would be one where most people travel in cars and do mystical jobs like manage a book store.

Also, to the dismissive replies, if the story requires a traditional MMOG, then there is only so much he can do...

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Well, I don't see how being this game a VR would hurt the concept of class and levels.
I imagine it as going around in a world, and the game 'helps' me in doing things in relation of my class/level.

If I am a warrior, my blows will be counted as more hard, and maybe other players would feel my sword a lot heavier than I do.


For responding to OP:

1) I don't like the random generated stats. If it is a MMORPG, it IS at least a little about competition. Players won't play a game which is not fair under this aspect.

2) I'm not getting this:
Quote:
When you are triple classed you would gain 3Stp per 33% of xp bar which would effectively give you 16StP per level rather than 10 for single classing.

You would get 9StP.. or not?

3)
Quote:
XP is multiplied by a+a*0.2 (where a equals the number of classes a character has) per class you take on. So if a normal classed person would need 100xp to lvl a dual class would need 220xp and someone with 10 classes would need 1100 to lvl.


So, a multiclassed player would also take less StP and Skill Points, since the 'checkpoints' to have them are more far away? ( also, someone with 10 classes would need 1200 to lvl, I think )

4)
Quote:
Class level is separate from character level. A class begins to level when it is gained. So a Character may be level 11, with a Warrior lvl of 11, and a thief level of 6.


Why this?

5)
Quote:
Character level is set back to 0 once their first class is learned, although they keep all stats and equipment from before. This is largely a easthetic thing, but it allows for someone to multiclass and keep all classes the same level rather than having them separated by 1 or more levels if they do no wish it.


Last, I simply can't understand what this means ^_^"

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1) I like the luck aspect of it. Let's say you pick to play a Human... They're the average race in most MMO so let's say you are then told your base amount of stats you'll have...which for humans would be like 5 across the board. That would mean that you can't get below that. So you have control in that way, but then you get a roll for each stat to increase each stat by as much as 5 (in this case since the max a lvl 1 char can have is 10) so you can have anywhere between 0 and 5 extra points added to each stat. This means that while the race plays a factor and gives you a base line that you can plan around you can also get lucky and get a higher boost...So an extremely lucky person with any race could get 10s across the board while someone extremely unlucky can still plan around their play style if they care to. This replicates a birth aspect as not every person of a race would be born the same, but in general would have the same base level characteristics.

And not to mention all future levels you get to assign your points...so even if you are an extremely unlucky human and you could still level in the same way and really the few extra points are moot within the first few levels.


2) I was changing my mind back and forth during writing that but what I mean is that upon level up you get a set amount. If you multiclass to make up for the fact you have a much longer way to go and in some cases this can be horrable, like if you choose to get all 20 classes you'd be lvl 2 when everyone else around you is like lvl 5 and this would get worse as you'd lvl up, you are given mini-level ups or whatever you want to call it. Your lvl is then broken down into however many parts based on how many classes you have, so it's not that you mini-lvl say 3 time with triple classing but rather your xp bar is broken into 3 sections and get 2 mini-level ups. You don't get a mini-level up along with your standard lvl up... Also those mini-level ups give you lvl up StP/# of classes so that if the lvl up is going to give you 10, per mini level up you get 3 StP (rounded down unless less than 0) So for that lvl overall...
single class = 10
dual class = 15
triple = 16
quad = 16
quint = 18
6 = 15
7 = 16
8 = 17
9 = 18
10+ = 19+1per extra class
20 = 29

Just to be clear. With this you would get 10StP at the lvl up with all amounts of classes. With the mini-level ups you get lvl up StP/number of classes and the number of mini-level ups you get would be equal to the number of classes you have -1.

So it's sorta a deterrent as well for going past a certain number of classes.

3) Someone multiclassed gets more stat points and skills open to them...however there are bottle necks in how many classes you want to have as each class adds more xp needed to lvl to get that big lvl up. Most people I would predict would tend to get no more than 3 classes and have them 1 or 2 levels separated between them...and yes i'm pretty sure the number is wrong...i'm bad at math. I just do roughly when I'm coming up with this stuff.

4) Mainly because class lvl is only used for what skills you can get. It has nothing to do with stats or skill points in general. More or less it's just to show a character has more experience as one class than another and thus may have more skills in one area over another. This is also much easier than the main class switching idea I had a while ago for this. Basically they all level up at the same time, but if you take one earlier than another you will be slightly less skilled in it. It also serves as the practical block to getting the best skills of multiple classes in many cases... imagine a player with 3 insta kills (assuming the highest lvl skills would be insta kills)at their disposal. While it is possible the common player won't realize how.

5) Have you played Ragnorak Online? Basically, when you change classes your lvl is for the class only and you can no longer access your newbie levels which effectively makes you lvl 1 again, but you keep all your stats and skills. A similar thing happens here, but as all classes are combined in this game your lvl is only reset the first time you get your class. So you lvl as much as you want as a newbie and then you get your class. All the stats from those lvls are kept and your shown lvl is reduced to lvl 1. Now if you get a second class it just shows that you are lvl 1 in both classes and character class...

Theoretically, someone who is either really stupid or really smart could completely obliterate the limitations placed on characters by simply lvling without get a class to say lvl 100, and then get all 20 classes at the same time and lvl them all together. It would get their stats and skills extremely high in comparison to others...

I say extremely smart or stupid because in this game you are only allowed one account and one character. No rerolling.

I wonder if i should put a newbie limit ^.^

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Sorry wai and thk, i didn't see your posts...

Wai,
The game is the world they are in. The future setting just allows for a game to exist in this way. It's just an excuse for certain things being possible.

REM sleep only takes a small time and if I remember correctly it is the most recooperative and where all the stuff you are talking about takes place. It would be easy to make it so the system auto log when you go into REM or something.

There's more things wrong with it, but most of it can be ignored as not coming up much within the story.

thk,
The lvl 10 or higher idea comes from a number of MMORPGs such as Ragnorak Online and CABAL to name two...also many games allow you to switch classes later on or subclass later on, PSU allows you to change and unlock classes. FFXI allows you to change, unlock, and subclass.

"sever requirements" You mean server? The date for this is something like 50-100 years out.

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