So are you suggesting then that it's possible the problem with not emotionally attaching to current game is the opposite of what people seem to be suggesting? As in that it's perhaps too MUCH hand-holding and leading the player through the experience, which makes it harder for them to "create" their own story within our worlds? I still think that too much freedom in a game makes it so too high of a percentage of players simply become lost and confused as to what to do next, but I do agree that the strongest memories players create in the MMO genre are usually ones that they themselves build using the tools we give them. The problem then seems to be that we're either giving them too many or too few or simply the wrong kind of tools, which then goes back to my last post, and how those tools might be used.

But yes, I think the feeling of needing to reach the long-term goal of max level is too distracting for many players, and serves to distract them from the world you're trying to give them, but the question is how to get them to buy into the world you've created, and see that as just as important as the end game. I think one way to do so is perhaps moving to a more skill-based system, similar to SW:G, but then that runs into the issue of grinding for skill points, because you don't have a definite leveling path where you know the "con" of the mobs in comparison to your own power.

Stangler - I do agree that flat leveling progression is a problem, which is why I'm leaning towards more of a skill-based system, similar to what SW:G used to have, but as I stated the major problem with that is simply the fact that the player often doesn't know where they should be leveling, and it's hard to make quests and storylines for players at varying level of powers depending on where they are skill-wise. Distinct 1-___ level ranges make it much easier to create content for specific levels of player progression, and allow you to guide them better so they don't feel they just need to randomly grind mobs (which of course gets boring).

And yes, attainment is important, but what I am suggesting is that perhaps there can be a method found that allows us to force the players to look more strongly at short-term attainment, and live more in the moment, instead of focusing so much on the end-goal of hitting max level or something of that nature.

Rasmadrak - While the idea has been discussed and desired many times over, no one has been able to come up with a reasonable method to do so that doesn't require billions of man hours of developer time creating content, or make new players feel like they missed out on all the cool stuff. The amount of time that it would take to develop a moving quest-chain system like you have suggested is so formidable that no developer has even attempted it, because even if you focused your entire team on that one objective you will still never be able to create enough content.

That is what concerns me about so-called story-focused games like Star Wars: TOR that are in development, no matter how fast you create content, players will always consume it faster than you can create it. There needs to be something viable and fulfilling for players to do once they finish the storylines you put into place. Which is why I don't want to exhaust too much time on building immersive stories, because eventually players will move past them, and then what? But I still want them to create powerful memories and feel strong emotions as they do create these stories using the tools I give them, which is why this discussion.

Quote:Original post by Stangler
MMORPGs are about attainment first and foremost.

So far...

This is not a new issue at all.
It's been around since RPG's began, and mostly, it is something that continues as an extension of quest-for-item-reward systems; which do happen to be the large base of systems in all formats of RPG's.

It's also the base for most point-A-to-point-B-based games, as at some point a power-up, level-up, item, etc... is granted for attaining some point in the game.
The difference is in linear and non-linear graphing of the level design.
MMORPG's level design is non-linear and optional; not mandatory.


This all said, not all RPG's out there work on this method.
The second (Vampire), fifth (Werewolf), and sixth (Shadowrun) most popular major RPGs do not use this method at all.(Source: http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/wotcdemo.html)

You have ambitions, quests, and missions to go out and accomplish something, but your primary rewards in these systems are a handful of points (not much by comparison to other systems)to spend on building your character up some more, and to get some money to spend on items yourself.

So attainment is still there, but not in a direct method as seen in systems where items are the point of doing a quest directly.