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Veterens and experienced..... HELP US!!!!!

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Im a kid who wants to learn how to program c++ andim probably not the only one so I was wondering if more experienced programmers help me and any other begginers who join this forum. Please sure your vast knoledge of the code oh coding ones!

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You can start by helping yourself :)

Grab Visual Studio Express 2008 from here. This will let you make programs written in C++ (it's a big download).

and have a look at one of the many C++ tutorials on the net.. Here's a good one, and hopefully some others will recommend more.

Play around for abit and save up a bunch of questions, then ask us!

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Im a kid who wants to learn how to program c++ andim probably not the only one so I was wondering if more experienced programmers help me and any other begginers who join this forum. Please sure your vast knoledge of the code oh coding ones!
You'll probably have more luck if you ask specific questions. Is there anything in particular you want to know?

Also, many here would suggest starting with a language other than C++ if you're a beginner to programming. (The two most commonly recommended alternatives seem to be C# and Python.)

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There are plenty of experienced people out there willing to help, however they don't (usually) have the time to teach you everything. Do a little research and come back with a few specific questions if you get stuck. Searching through these forums will come up with hundreds of others who have asked the same or similar questions. Look at the responses they have got.

After all, the most important thing you need to learn is how to find answers to problems, and not just get the answers given to you.

The most important attributes of a developer are enthusiasm and a desire to learn. Show you have those attributes and people will be only too willing to help.

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Original post by thegnap
lol i just thought of a question whats the difference between c++ and c# i know what python is already


They are both different languages and do things differently.
Probably all you need to know at this stage is that c# was developed by Microsoft from c++. That means it's newer and is probably a little easier for beginners to learn, but it's also more restricted to Windows programming.

(There are lots of other detailed differences, but until you start learning, they won't mean much to you)

(Oh, and people will argue for hours over which is the best / most suited / easiest. I will only say that as a professional games programmer, I use c++, make of that what you want.)

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In my opinion, it's the book/tutorial and not the language that determines if something is easy to learn or not. I still remember years back in school where they give lessons in Java because, according to them, that was easy to learn. About 85% failed after the second test and after 2 years 75% was unable to code properly. You can screw up any language if you don't have a proper guide to teach you how to use it correctly.

If you are new to programming, perhaps you should use some libraries first and don't get directly into stuff WIN32 API. I personally find the WIN32 API one of the ugliest I have seen, it can be confusing to new programmers. Once you know the basics of the language, you can use APIs like this without messing up your code with it. And one more hint: don't turn warnings off in your compiler, way to many people do that but warnings are there for a reason. I've seen people wondering for hours why their code doesn't give the correct output, only to find out they were passing a wrong datatype but had because they had warnings turned off it took hours to find out.

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Original post by MichaBen
In my opinion, it's the book/tutorial and not the language that determines if something is easy to learn or not. I still remember years back in school where they give lessons in Java because, according to them, that was easy to learn. About 85% failed after the second test and after 2 years 75% was unable to code properly. You can screw up any language if you don't have a proper guide to teach you how to use it correctly.

If you are new to programming, perhaps you should use some libraries first and don't get directly into stuff WIN32 API. I personally find the WIN32 API one of the ugliest I have seen, it can be confusing to new programmers. Once you know the basics of the language, you can use APIs like this without messing up your code with it. And one more hint: don't turn warnings off in your compiler, way to many people do that but warnings are there for a reason. I've seen people wondering for hours why their code doesn't give the correct output, only to find out they were passing a wrong datatype but had because they had warnings turned off it took hours to find out.


I would go one further and suggest you set the compiler to treat all warnings as errors. As MichaBen said they are there for a reason :)

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thanks again and this might be off beat to programming but what is it actually like working in a gaming company or whatever, is like a fun enviroment with young vibrant people and always doing crazy and silly things or is it serious and well depressing at times. I want to know everything!!!

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Original post by thegnap
... what is it actually like working in a gaming company or whatever, is like a fun enviroment with young vibrant people and always doing crazy and silly things or is it serious and well depressing at times. I want to know everything!!!

It's kind of like working at McDonalds but with longer hours and no polyester uniform.

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It's like a desk job. You sit at your computer and do your work. I suppose to give you a better reference, it's like work.

The difference is, you are doing something you enjoy as opposed you are doing something JUST to make a living. If you have a passion for gaming AND a passion for programming, and don't mind being one of the lowest paid programmers in the world, then it could indeed be a career plan for you. Just keep in mind that it is a tough industry to get into and as I mentioned, it isn't the most lucrative position for a program to hold. But don't let that scare you, it still pays enough to live comfortably and support a family. Just don't expect to be driving a beamer on the way to work :P

By the way, I'm not sure how young you are, but the earlier you start, the better off you are. Programming is a skill that takes years and years of practice to get good at, so if you start now, it's possible that you can have the hardest parts of learning out of the way before you are even in college. That will help you tremendously, because at that point you can already start building upon an impressive portfolio to tack onto your resume and be ready to start shining by the time you are 21-22. Don't wait like I did, I won't be nearly ready to start sending in those resumes for another 4 years, and by then I'll be almost 30!

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AWESOME im fine with the desk job and everything and to tell you the truth im 13 so that gives me plenty of time learn. My only problem is sticking to things but i think i can stick to programming. When i get frustrated i can go play a video game and get inspired.

Also if i dont get into the gaming industry and still program what other jobs can i get?

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Original post by OldProgie2
(Oh, and people will argue for hours over which is the best / most suited / easiest. I will only say that as a professional games programmer, I use c++, make of that what you want.)


And I will counter by saying I'm a professional games programmer, I've used/use C++, C# and Lua and that Python is also a big thing in the games industry.

I'm also willing to bet you didn't start with C++, nor do you only know C++, because I started with BASIC at 13 and know multiple languages.

The key thing is not to think 'omg! I must do what the pros do!' because the pros took years to get there and went via other languages. When you are starting out you are better off using a language which is not going to throw pitfull after pitfull at you while you are trying to learn to program; you want something which lets you focus on how to make things, not the various strange corner cases of the language, which C++ is full of.

So, to repeat the advice which is thrown out here often; C++ is a very poor learning langauge, I strongly suggest you start with something else like C# or Python.

You are still a good 8 years from worrying about a programming job, so there is no great hurry.

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Well, if you go about it the smart way and get a Computer Science degree as opposed to one of those game programming degrees, you should still have an EASY time finding a job programming office applications. A good idea for you is to go online and look at websites with regular job postings such as Monster and see what is in your area.

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don't get dragged down to much with what language to learn, most programmers know at least 2 or 3 to an intermediate - advanced level and learning a new one is usually straight forward once you have your grounding. Just because you start learning C++ for example does not mean you will have to start from scratch when moving to another language.

When I was at University we did purely C++, but after graduating last year I have used C++, Java, C#, Python and XPath all professionaly, key thing is to get good programming with a language of your choice, then afterwards progression to another is usually easy. The only recommendation I would make it make sure you start on a language that is Object Orientated, hence stay away from C, you need OO these days unless you want to go into driver development and really low level stuff :)

There is plenty of books out there which will be more useful then any forum posts for learning a language.

Good Luck!

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Code::blocks or devC++ is probably way simpler than Visual C++ to start out with. I would reccomend the first module of the GameInstitute's C++ programming series for starters. Which would lead you to Visual C++.net. I started out in basic then went to C++.

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Original post by phantom
And I will counter by saying I'm a professional games programmer, I've used/use C++, C# and Lua and that Python is also a big thing in the games industry. I'm also willing to bet you didn't start with C++, nor do you only know C++, because I started with BASIC at 13 and know multiple languages.

One of the most annoying things I find with this site is people always arguing about which language/IDE/engine is best. Yes, I did start with other languages (such as Z80 assembler), but I use c++ as that is what fits in with my work as a console programmer. As much as I may like (or dislike) using any other language, it is the one that is most widely used and supported in the field. Good, bad or indifferent, that is the state of play. As a moderator, I am dismayed at your wish to continue the childish 'my language is better than yours' argument. There has been enough argument on here about that subject and people should be allowed to make their own decisions.
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Original post by phantom
The key thing is not to think 'omg! I must do what the pros do!'

The problem is that a lot of people do eventually want to become a professional programmer. Yes, learning a language such as c++ may be hard, but so too are a lot of other things. If you have the desire and the ability, you will get over it.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for life"
In other words, teach a programmer how to think for themselves, not just follow the crowd.

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One of the most annoying things I find with this site is people always arguing about which language/IDE/engine is best. Yes, I did start with other languages (such as Z80 assembler), but I use c++ as that is what fits in with my work as a console programmer. As much as I may like (or dislike) using any other language, it is the one that is most widely used and supported in the field. Good, bad or indifferent, that is the state of play. As a moderator, I am dismayed at your wish to continue the childish 'my language is better than yours' argument. There has been enough argument on here about that subject and people should be allowed to make their own decisions.

I don't see his post as an argument about which language is better in the general, but rather one trying to reinforce the point that a beginner probably does not want to be making decisions too heavily influenced by the starry-eyed "let's do what the professionals do so I can be a professional too!" attitude. Which is an excellent and welcome point, considering which particular forum we're posting in right now.

The closest his post came was the part where he, drawing upon his experience, pointed out that he agrees with the sentiment that C++ is a subpar initial language and would recommend something else instead. This is not all that dissimilar from your own post. You have both offered valid pieces of advice for the OP to consume and process in his own way.

So let's not turn this into something it's not, and get back to the topic at hand. Further off-topic discussions about "childish posts" and "which language is better," are to be taken to PM, another thread, or another forum as appropriate. I will inflict upon subsequent infractions the due punishment (i.e, I will delete your posts).

Carry on.

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Python is much easier to learn and develop games for. Using Python and PyGames I was able to hack out a pong clone with little dificulty, however using C++ I am having a hell of a time getting the basics of Direct3D down just to load my graphics much less any of the fun game stuff. In my opinion since you have time, start with Python and move to C++ later.

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I just want to point out that sometimes when experienced coders say things along the lines of "C++ is hard" beginners take that as "C++ is complex and powerful, other languages dubbed easier are less robust etc." This is not the case. Python, C# etc, all have more advanced language features than C++. C++ is not hard because it requires more advanced techniques or anything like that, but because it has a lot of undefined cases and surprises. You can get run time errors that arent reported, etc etc. Its not a bad language, but don't make the mistake of thinking that since people say "Python is good for beginners" that python is a beginner language, or C# for that matter. To be honest, I feel that C#+XNA is the perfect starter setup, and I would definitely use it on a large project. I'm not here to make any claims to the relative strengths of the languages, just to bring up the point i made earlier.

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