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LuvPrince

TechnoGoth's Idea.

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Alright, I have just been searching the Internet, and I came across this particular thread from a user named TechnoGoth speaking about a non-grinding, balanced-leveled MMORPG. I couldn't help but to notice that I seemed to be one of the only few who supports this idea. As I tried to reply (forgive me for I am new and have no idea as to how old the post is) I recieved a message stating that it has been "retired". Well, I want to revive it and discuss this a bit more, with my ideas thrown in. I like the idea of no base level differences because as he said, people who have been playing longer have an obvious advantage over the player who just started, and that creates and infinite gap between the two. Now multiply that by a number in the thousands place. That's the problem with most MMORPG titles. Now explain to me how killing loads of small lizards or giant rats is supposed to give you more experience. Forgive me, for the one feature I observe is general realism, and that just doesn't cut it. I get the vibe that TechnoGoth isn't aiming for a fantasy game as he mentions computer hacking and security guards, but why can't we be stronger than another player by skill, rather than by time played? Some perfect examples are the critically acclaimed "Elder Scrolls" titles. The later games do involve level systems, but that affects skills, not how literally strong the player is. I dream of a game in which a user's skill and strategy are what makes his character the better in a PvP duel. Seriously, what is a game without a little strategy thrown in? I don't bruise easily, so don't hold back on your replies. I need feedback. Thank you.

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It might help to link to the thread or website that describes the original idea.

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Good call. I guess I presumed that everyone had read it.
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=436672

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Quote:
Original post by LuvPrince
Now explain to me how killing loads of small lizards or giant rats is supposed to give you more experience.
...it's a game? It's just a collection mechanic, it doesn't have to make sense.
Quote:
but why can't we be stronger than another player by skill, rather than by time played?
Pretty much every game does this, except games with stat-based character progression (most often RPGs).
Face of Mankind comes to mind when thinking of MMO's with no character-stats.
Quote:
Some perfect examples are the critically acclaimed "Elder Scrolls" titles. The later games do involve level systems, but that affects skills, not how literally strong the player is.
Elder scrolls III and IV have a character stat of 'strenth', which increases as you level up (i.e. the longer you play, the stronger you are). Isn't this exactly the kind of system that you don't want?
Quote:
I dream of a game in which a user's skill and strategy are what makes his character the better in a PvP duel.
Stop playing stat-based games then and jump in Call of Duty ;)

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Haha, thanks for the humor, but that is just the problem. I'm throwing out an spark of a fantasy game that isn't stat based.

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I think one could design a level-less fantasy-themed MMO which would be fun to play. I don't think realism is an important design goal or particularly compatible with fun play though.

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Yeah, lots of fantasy games are RPGs, and lots of RPGs are stat based.

Perhaps you would like a fantasy shooter/strategy hybrid game like savage?

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Technogoth's had a lot of ideas, many of them excellent. Gotta be specific around here, many of our posters are quite prolific.

For the terminally lazy, behold! Linkulated!

For my part, I think that taking away the character stats and the associated "grind" puts a huge burden on the developer to produce something else for a player to do during that time. You've got to be working toward something to feel like you're making progress, and polishing skills is a great reward system that will fuel thousands of hours of play, particularly in an MMO. If you aren't earning phat lewts or jacking your stats, what are you doing? Telling a compelling story? More the domain of tabletop games, in my opinion, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

The other problem, from a design perspective, with taking away the linear progression of characters, is the "best build" phenomenon. If you can start your character just the way you like him, and then work from there, then it'll take about fifteen minutes for your players to find out how to min-max a new character to kick butts. Put all your points in agility and fireball, and you'll be able to dodge your own splash damage and "smartbomb" through an army wearing nothing but sneaking boots and a backpack full of mana potions. Dump 99% of your points into archery and one point into the "First Strike" and "Double Shot" talents and go around blinding every enemy with double-eye-shots from 150 yards. Your design team will see the imbalance and spend a week or two writing a patch to correct it, and then half your exploiters ragequit due to nerfing, the other half will adapt to the newly discovered "perfect stealth/steal weapon/poison pin" maneuver, and the rest of your population will whine on your forums about the balance issues.

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Thank you very much. All of these are nice replies and great points made, too. On the off hand, realism is just my thing. I didn't intend to sound like I would implement that. Anywho, I was thinking maybe instead of characters and players being just "citizens" in the world, is it possible for one character to be the "King" of that Realm of Server? Maybe if a person could get involved in politics with other players they could come out being the King or Lord of that particular server. That leaves room for assassination attempts and mutiny. I'm talking about less NPCs and more User-controlled games. I'd like to be the King of my own province in-game. It would be fun to have to always watch my back for Ninjas or others who may want me dead. Also, (this may be the part where you all go away) maybe no respawning! (DAH DAH DAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!), just free spots for new characters and if they die then they die, too bad. While that's a bummer for the person who loves their character, (but not getting flaming mad because he worked so hard on it because there would be no levels), it adds to the, "Oh, SHI-" feeling, but it's still fair. Thank you, people. Continue with the replies. I love 'em.


P.S.-This may sound noobish, but could someone PM me about how to link something for future reference? I tried, but it was just a URL. Thanks in advance.

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