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tomneo2004

can someone give me an advice

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Hi guys, i am not sure that if you are working in game industry or not. No matter what kind of occupation in your job, i real appreciate your suggestion and opinion after you read the situation i have. I am really interested in game programming, therefore, i spend most of time on it. 3 months ago i found a game programming course from a digital institution in my country and i was excited so i enrolled in that course. Here i give a little brief of course content. 36hours Tutorial on c++ programming (i have fundamental of this, so i quite comfortable with it) 36hours Tutorial on game math and physics 36hours Tutorial on DirectX programming 36hours Tutorial on 3D graphics 36hours Tutorial on game AI 36hours Tutorial on DirectX shader 18hours Tutorial on game engine training(the engine is developed by tutor him self, then we just learn how to use the function in that engine) 126hours game project The style of tutorial: 1. c++ programming, the tutor just project powerpoint on screen and then fast run through each topics.there is no example or snipping code for us. Therefore, many student in class couldn't understand, so they decide to study when they back home. 2. game math and physics, the same tutor from c++programming. He just give us a introduction on each topics but didn't tell us how to implement in game. 3. DirectX programming, the tutor is a bit better than before. he didn't teach us how to build up a basic of Direct3D device, instead of giving us his code and teach us how to modify part of the code to show up some thing on screen that we expect. 4. 3D gaphics, tutor introduction on many of topics and formula, but same thing no implement in game 5. game AI, we haven't get to this module but tutor is the same guy in c++ programming. 6. DirectX shader, we haven't get to this moudle either. The tutor is the same guy in 3D graphics 7. game engine training(not open source), the enging is developed by the tutor who teach us 3D graphics. so far we only been taught how to use it. 8. game project, the tutor ask us to make third person style game. As well as, include shader in our project. we have around 2 to 3 peoples as a group. we have detail of project and we come up with many idea for project. The day we present our project to tutor, he said our idea are really bad, as thing happen to other group. Each group had 20 minute to present, i only heard he said what part of project not good. For instance, we want our camera operate like the game Devil May Cry 4, but he said no. We change many parts in our game but he still don't like. Before i get in there, i thought i can develop a game with few people from creating our own engine, even a tiny engine. but the purpose in there is not. In addition, our own idea could not apply to our game, no matter good or bad. I feel we are doing tutor's idea not my own. As well as, i dont like his attitude, for some reason he keep asking you why you do that without giving any of advices then he will tell you come back when you are ready. Day by day, it depress me and no more energy. Moreover, our game project become something i don't disagree with it. I have thought about quit from here and learn by myself, howere, i can't get the refund back. There is one of my friend tell me if we quit and learn by ourself then make our own game to get a job in game industry. Now i am thinking about learn by my self to make my own game or stay there keep doing that project under tutor's pressure. Overall, i am disappointed and regret why i getting here. so far i don't feel i learn any useful technic stuff for game most of class i have to find the resource by myself even ask pepole in internet. This is not the way i paid for. My purpose is to learn technics stuff to create my own game , even use open source engine to combine with others to make game so, that i can understand more about game engine OGRE3D for example. thank you for reading this if you have any suggestion or aspect of view please replay me i will really appreciate you What skill do i need to enter game industry? is it possible to learn by myself to ceate my game?

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Indeed, you are in a tough situation. From your description, it does appear your instructor is probably a jerk. If he wasn't, he'd provide some advice and alternatives.

If you are totally (and I mean totally) dedicated to game programming, you can do it yourself. I did, others have too, and in your situation, I'd probably forget your instructor and start on my own. However, that's not the advice I will give you.

Instead, I suggest this. It sounds like you have already progressed through more than 50% of the course. Put aside your annoyance at your instructor, ignore his arrogance and unhelpfulness, and go ahead and create your game project *whatever way YOU want*. Don't worry about what grade he gives you --- at all. Instead, worry about what grade you would give yourself.

Make this an opportunity to find out whether you are as smart and insightful as you believe. Ignore his input 100% (seems like he doesn't give any positive input anyway), ignore input from everyone, and make the best game project you can. Do this for yourself. Do this to test whether you can do what you think you can do, and as a test of yourself. When you are done, stand back and examine your project like an outsider who knows nothing about it --- and give it a grade. In fact, give yourself many grades, one on each aspect of the design.

I suggest you focus on quality, not quantity. Make fewer features, but make them look and work well.

The BEST way to get into the game industry is to have already completed projects that impress people. That is worth 100x more than a certificate from a school. But this is also 10x to 100x harder to achieve, because those who look at your work will not listen to "oh, it would have been better if I had more time", or any other excuse. These folks will be much more impressed with high-quality small projects than average-quality large projects, so focus on quality. And if you can include one innovative or impressive feature in each project you create, that's a bonus.

I had zero courses in video game technology, but I got two contracts to be co-lead developer of commercially released video games. Why? They had dozens of applications from candidates with game-school degrees, and many applications from people involved in other games. Answer: they happened to see some other (not game) technology projects that I developed alone that massively impressed them. And they knew I did those projects without any help. I was amazed they wanted me; I didn't even play video games! (To explain: they wanted me primarily to create the game engine and its related subsystems, and had others who had plenty of game playing experience). Since then, I've seen other "exceptional developers" get jobs at game companies, and the reason is clear. To make good games is a massively difficult endeavor, so first and foremost they want people who are creative, talented, clear thinkers, great programmers, extraordinarily productive, can recognize and invent efficient architectures, and are able to solve problems on their own when necessary. BTW, all this advice is based upon the nature of software development positions. The situation may be very different for artists, modelers, sound/music designers, etc.

I hope this helps. Summary: I suggest you finish the course. Ignore your instructor and do the project your way. What do you have to lose at this point?

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I suggest you finish the course no matter how bad it is. It's better to go through hell for a the short length of that course and get your degree on paper. Going freelance is possible, however you might have to deal with policy book hiring junkies who could careless if you made a million high end games, they want a piece of paper stating you can program and make games.

I'm sorry for the crap you gotta go through with that instructor, he clearly has no clue on how to teach. You wouldn't gain any less from just doing it all at home and reading the books yourself if he's unwilling to give example code.

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I am really appreciate those advices from you guys. Certainly, i really want to create my own project which is totally different from the one instructor gave. Basically, just like you say it is 10 times 1000 difficult to do it, however, if i ignore the instructor's project i will be kicked out. Thank you for clarify quality and quantity issue to me. How long dose it take to achieve my own game project from learning by myself? Is it enough to learn game programming by myself?

ps: it is less resource on what i am learning in my country, therefore, i mostly read the tutorial in English in internet or buy the book, this is the way i learning by myself .

Buy the way, which one is important learning DirectX or game engine

[Edited by - tomneo2004 on June 24, 2009 11:41:08 AM]

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Quote:
Original post by tomneo2004
Buy the way, which one is important learning DirectX or game engine


Hard to say, if you end up in a game company that makes PS3 games, DirectX knowledge is useless. However the knowledge on how to implement an API is valuable, even if it's not the specific API you learned. But DirectX is a dirty and ugly API in my opinion, plus it takes time to set it up. Going with a game engine and using a rendering engine like OGRE or Irrlicht might be better. It's easy to get started as with 50 lines of code you have a 3D scene and can start coding the game around it while learning about using an API and how 3D graphics work at the same time. You will have results much faster that way

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Consider that if you were to work for a game company you probably wouldn't be working on your own game either. You would be paid to work on their games using their engines and technologies. And there might be just as many unflexible people there too. Surviving your classes might prepare you for that.

To learn by yourself is possible. Whether it's a better idea or not I don't know.

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Quote:
Original post by tomneo2004
I really appreciate the advice from you guys. Certainly, I really want to create my own project which is totally different from the one instructor gave. Basically, just like you say it is 10 times to 1000 more difficult to do it, however, if I ignore the instructor's project i will be kicked out. Thank you for clarify quality and quantity issue to me. How long dose it take to achieve my own game project from learning by myself? Is it enough to learn game programming by myself?

PS: There are less resources on what I am learning in my country, therefore, I mostly read tutorials in English on the internet or buy books, this is the way i learning by myself.

Buy the way, which one is important learning DirectX or game engine
You listed the parts of the course in your first message. Which parts did you find easy, which parts did you find difficult, and which parts were most interesting to you?

Also, please state how much of your own time and effort can you spend over the next year or three to learn game development? Also state how certain you are that you will persist through painful, difficult times during your learning and engine/game development processes.

Is the best plan for you to learn a graphics API like OpenGL or DirectX? Or is the best plan for you to research game engines, choose one, then make a first game with that? The answer depends upon your strengths, your weaknesses, and your preferences. So no single answer is appropriate to that question. Personally I think OpenGL is a much better 3D graphics API for you to learn first, but that assumes you decide to learn a graphics API first. Also, if you found the DirectX part of your course easy or fun, you should forget OpenGL for now and focus on DirectX. Either API is a fine basis for a 3D game engine.

One advantage of learning an existing game engine is, you can probably create a nice game quicker. The main disadvantage is, you substantially narrow the job opportunities you can apply for based upon that one experience.

One very important advantage of writing your own engine is, you will be much more expert in 3D graphics technology when you're done, and therefore you find higher level positions available to you. But expect to spend a couple man-years of work to accomplish this, assuming you are not easily faked into adopting lame technologies. My advice here is to always write to the lowest level packages you can find. If you are an honest, diligent programmer and willing to invest lots of time and effort, you might be able to find an experienced mentor. This is typically a two-way experience: you do work your mentor needs done, and your mentor gives you access to a large project and also answer millions of questions you have. If you find a good one, you will learn how to think and design effectively.

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Working with a company, you have to follow the company's decisions, and not your own.

Working as a private-developer, you get to make your decisions, but it is a lower wage.

Personally, if my heart told me to leave, then I would. If my pride told me to leave, then... I hope I wouldn't.

If the tutor is the boss... Then write a list of your ideas, and ask him how they can be improved (i.e. what he wants, instead of your ideas). I think that you just do not get along with the tutor, because he/she may not be a good tutor. But you'll still learn if you follow his advice, and since it is a course, you are being marked on what the tutor asks for.

Devil May Cry 4 has an extremely difficult-to-render camera! First-off, you would need to study the rotational viewpoints, the frame-of-reference of the viewpoint, moving frames-of-references... Everything would have to be completely modelled...

There are many 2.5D viewpoints that are much easier to do (isometric).

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Quote:
Original post by tomneo2004
is it possible to learn by myself to ceate my game?

Yes. It's possible. That doesn't mean it will be easy. The best thing is to work cooperatively with several other people.

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