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Antheus    2409
Original post by jeffpk
I am HOPING that BFG will let me release this tool to the public as this is actually a general problem in serialization thats needed a proper fix for a long time. If not I will at least try to document exactly what I did so others can reproduce it.

This is the general problem with this discussion that bothers me, and why I feel it's difficult to discuss anything that does not involve general hand-waving. I'm sorry I need to resort to this word again.

Schema migration is not a trivial problem, it's not a new problem, and is a well understood and researched one. There is no need for cutting edge research on it, just tweaks to existing frameworks and their issues.

With PDS you make it sound like its trivial and already supported, yet in next paragraph there might be a tool available some time in the future.

I will only point out ZeroC documentation (pdf), namely chapter 41 on FreezeScript. It clearly describes the problem, the solution, as well as corner cases which can and cannot be handled.

There is no "it's automatic" unless it really is. There is no "sometime in the future" or "someone implemented it". It is solved, implemented and available right now. Not only that, but it has been of production quality in 2006/2007, when we used it to great success.

The only "problem" with above solution is that it is a solved problem, available either as open source of in commercial form, and it works. There is no need to argue what it is or isn't, why something is or isn't. It has been available for years, there are users well experienced in it, and at least as far as our project was concerned, was fully usable out of box. It remains in this form today.

I would really wish this discussion were of technical and not marketing nature.

What does PDS solve that is different from ZeroC's solution, or how does it improve on CORBA persistence service? They are both widely used, stable, well understood platforms, and make for excellent apples-to-apples comparison.

Where can I read documentation of quality that matches that of ZeroC, including full disclosure on what is and isn't available, how everything is implemented (in documentation, not as source), and what trade-offs and gotchas there are?

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hplus0603    11347
when I talk about what the PDS "does" Im talking about what the model was designed to do

That is what's quite confusing, and in fact what seems to turn off most engineers I've talked to. That is marketeer-speak, not engineer-speak. If you want to make statements on what you hope the architecture will be able to accomplish, then they should generally be qualified as "the PDS architecture allows ..." or similar. Saying "PDS does ..." implicitly means that I can, today, get a deployment, push a button (or write a few hundred lines of code), and get the result that you claim.

A less discerning cusomer/engineer will read those statements, and believe that he'll get that capability today. I've seen that marketing within enterprise software a lot, but mostly it's clearly framed within roadmap context. Part of my critique of the PDS documentation and communication is that such context is largely missing.

Regarding schema updates: It sounds like there's no good solution within PDS other than writing code right now, which is fair, and it sounds like there might be some tools to help support these cases in the future, which is also fair -- but again, is a forward-looking statement.

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