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Girsanov

What is the point of MMOs?

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MMORPGs : Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game MMORPGs are weird. I started out playing MUDs (multi-user dungeons - old school text based mmorpgs) then progressed to free graphical ones like Rose Online, Maple Story, Runescape and small amateur ones with less than 2000 players online. Never thought of actually playing to play one. Why? Because I can't see the "game" that I am supposed to be playing. What is the point of playing an MMORPG? The core and probably only worthwhile activity is to grind for more loot and experience points. Or in the case of games like WoW and some MUDs, grind for PvP points after hitting the level cap. I tried thinking of how I would design an MMORPG that is grind free but couldn't figure out what you could do other than grind. To chat and socialize, there are many social tools like IRC, second life and real life. Even with faction wars etc thrown in, its still all about levels and equipment. A.k.a. grinding to get levels and equipment to win faction wars. You win if you grind more. Still, grinding is unusually addictive, which is why I play MMOs in the first place. Suppose we have an mmorpg without grinding. Can't think of what we can do in it. Comments?

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Assuming we're discussing modern mainstream MMO's.. Modern MMORPG grinding is boring because it is not challenging enough, and the rewards are not good enough. A quick fix is to add more ways for players to gain experience points.

Other than that, MMORPGs are about as pointless as life itself. You won't win or lose. In the end it's all about what you experience along the way (or something). I have always considered MMO's not to be games but rather simulated realities/virtual worlds/call it what you like. A virtual world may -contain- multiple games, but is usually not a game in itself.

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I agree with the poster above me.

In my humble opinion, grinding in an MMO game keeps people playing and paying money. As much as people say they hate grinding, there's still that sense of accomplishment from finally gaining what you were grinding for as well as the feeling of having something other players may not. Most people don't want to admit that...

Anyway, to remove grinding you need to have a skill based MMO with an emphasis on player skill and fun factor, and a de-emphasis on gear and experience.

At it's very simplest level, imagine a Halo MMO. Same game play but there's a world, open PvP and towns. No grinding there. Not sure how fun it would be though.

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@ Darklich

Halo MMO would be fun killing people for a while, then get bored of it, like every shooters. Because as you said, you have no feeling of accomplishment. If you die and lose matches, you feel the inverse of accomplishment. in MMOs, even if you die or whatever, you got XP anyway. You got that accomplishment, which keep you addicted to it.

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Technogoth made a thread about this, and it resurfaced just last week. Also, another thread expanded on it, and many have referenced it. You may want to check it out. Forgive me for not having a link ready, but it's an old post. You can find threads with links to it on the first page though.

Anyway, I really can't stand MMO's with no more content then "grind monsters" or "grind quests." That's really the background, to me. This is why I liked Eve's model, which was more about doing your chosen job then grinding. You did have the choice to grind quests or mindlessly kill enemies, but it was never necessary as anything more than a quick way to get a bit of cash. There, skills were earned by time, not by killing 99999 slimes. You were essentially free to do whatever you wanted, and so long as it was profitable, your ship would improve (because you could buy bigger/better ships, weapons, and equipment) and while you were improving your ship you were improving your skills.

This opened the way for a more interactive world. Since players weren't grinding, they could devote their time to building empires, piracy, wrecking empires, hunting pirates, anti-pirating, factional warfare (NPC), or factional warfare (entirely player driven). You could manipulate the market, join in the industry business, ship goods for rich clients, hunt down those shipments and profit from their destruction... All of this involved no grind. The system was also set up so that in two weeks, you could have a ship specialized for whatever you wanted, including piracy. You didn't need to be ubar l3et Pr0 lvl 928474839 to do your job well, you just needed to understand the game and use that understanding to win.

WoW was the complete opposite. In WoW your power was determined by your level and how closely you stuck to one or two builds for each class. Content was limited to: Grind mindlessly for exp, Grind mindlessly for ph4t l0otZ, or "factional warfare" that gave absolutely no benefits whatsoever and therefore had no reason to even exist. And that was the entire game. This is a poor model, and is only good for casual players to get their fantasy fix. For people who actually want meaningful content, WoW is rather like a sewer.

So to have an MMO without the grind, I would say create opportunities for the players to exploit. Give them more to do then grind, or remove the grind entirely. Make what they can do meaningful to the entire game, not just to a static instance that vanishes 5 seconds after the player happens to be done. Reduce the influence of NPCs to nothing. Allow players to control the game's very backstory, it's economy, it's ecology (rare to see, but if done well it's quite good), it's politics and, in short, the entire game's world.

The point of an RPG is immersion. You're supposed to immerse yourself into your character and that character's world. You can't really immerse yourself into a static world where your actions have no meaning, and your supposedly meaningful tasks get carried out by every other person you've ever spoken to. The point of an MMO is to immerse yourself in a world of dynamic entities that don't act in a prescripted manner. Once players act out preset scripts, then it's no different than NPCs acting out those scripts, and that's no different from single player. Other players can't act in a non-scripted way if the game only allows one or two ways to be effective, or to even exist (this is why I oppose classes).

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I don't think this is so much a question as to what the point of a game is. It's more of you stating that you aren't entertained enough from MMORPGs. Games don't really have a point other than to entertain you (or possibly teach you things).

If you're not enjoying the game you play and you feel like you're paying to work, then maybe you need to find a new game.

It all depends on your outlook really. Life can be one big grind if you look at it that way. All you do is work work work and then you die. An MMORPG might seem like a grind to one person, but it also might seem like entertainment to another. If you take away the grinding from an mmorpg, you'd find something else to find pointless. "what's the point of questing? to reveal more storyline? what's the point of the storyline? what's the point of obtaining items? to show them off or sell them? what's the point in that?" etc etc etc...

There is no way you're going to play a game that has some actual point you're going to find acceptable. Games are pointless. So is life. If that's how you want to look at it.

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Original post by Konidias
There is no way you're going to play a game that has some actual point you're going to find acceptable. Games are pointless. So is life. If that's how you want to look at it.
Humans do not generally act for "pointless" reasons, unless you want to assign some arbitrary metric as the means by which to determine how pointless something is. If instead you consider that humans work for perceived objectives, then you will see why and how games are in no way pointless. Further, while you're certainly able to if you choose, thinking that "games are pointless" is in no way beneficial to a game designer. Psychology should always be a consideration whenever one is trying to create a marketable product, and humans are not motivated to part with their time, energy or effort by nothing. Mankiw - a quite famous economist - said it best with his principle "people are motivated by incentives." If you don't keep this in mind, you wont be a successful designer.

For most people, games serve as a means of achieving fulfillment through entertainment. That's why people quit boring games and play games they find entertaining - it fulfills their objective. Some people are satisfied with simple entertainment, others need to be engaged in an activity to achieve enjoyment and some further still need to have visible results from their activities to assign any value to it or to achieve any fulfillment. That said, the OP really needs to choose a target audience. If he's targeting people that will enjoy simple entertainment then he should probably make a game based around long cinematics or story telling. If he's targeting an audience that requires engagement, but not visible results, then the WoW model is ideal. If he's targeting an audience that requires results from their activities, then a sandbox model would be more ideal. I personally require both results and immersion, and to achieve that, he would have to have quite an in depth system that does away with most of the MMO cliches.

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Try playing NeoPets - yeah the theme is little kiddish but even if you only tolerate it for a week you will experience an MMO which is not about killing monsters. It's built around a large collection of minigames and some forums; if it has a main goal, it's probably to earn money and spend it on stuff you want, although some people focus on earning trophies for minigame high scores.

GaiaOnline is similar, but there are a lot fewer minigames, more emphasis on the forums, huge emphasis on dressing your avatar, and they did recently add zOMG which has the monster killing and some more standard MMO play.

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Original post by Girsanov
MMORPGs : Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

MMORPGs are weird.

I started out playing MUDs (multi-user dungeons - old school text based mmorpgs) then progressed to free graphical ones like Rose Online, Maple Story, Runescape and small amateur ones with less than 2000 players online. Never thought of actually playing to play one. Why?

Because I can't see the "game" that I am supposed to be playing.

What is the point of playing an MMORPG? The core and probably only worthwhile activity is to grind for more loot and experience points. Or in the case of games like WoW and some MUDs, grind for PvP points after hitting the level cap.

I tried thinking of how I would design an MMORPG that is grind free but couldn't figure out what you could do other than grind. To chat and socialize, there are many social tools like IRC, second life and real life.

Even with faction wars etc thrown in, its still all about levels and equipment. A.k.a. grinding to get levels and equipment to win faction wars. You win if you grind more.


Still, grinding is unusually addictive, which is why I play MMOs in the first place.


Suppose we have an mmorpg without grinding. Can't think of what we can do in it. Comments?


Ultimately, MMOs are designed to capitalize on a trend. Period.

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Most people here didn't answer what I found to be the main question to game designers: what can we do to remove grind, and make a meaningful game?

And you who tried, aswered in general concepts.
I will start with some general concepts too:
I find that the feeling of purpose in MMORPG's could be created by first creating a really challenging world! And everyone has to stick together in order to survive.
And in addition, everyone would have a high value to a team or any community. Like one person is mainly able to heal others. And another is able to repair broken items. And another is able to deal a high melee damage. And so on.
But then as I said, the world must be more challenging!
And perhaps so challenging that the whole world could get consumed by darkness if the players don't keep fighting. Then it would be more like a Multiplayer RPG with a lot of smaller worlds that are hosted by different computers.
I really believe that this is the future of (M)MORPG's.
And then there is a separate future for online virtual worlds.

Here are some pretty easily implementable ideas:
-Add a class that is able to build structures in the world, like towers and walls for defence. These things would be built in parts, however not micro-particles!
-Monsters are spawned from certain destructible structures (so that they can be driven away from a village).
-A world may have a final (and very challenging) goal, like putting the ring into the mountain of flames.

Well, no more time for ideas, I'll be back later!

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Original post by dontstopdreaming
I find that the feeling of purpose in MMORPG's could be created by first creating a really challenging world! And everyone has to stick together in order to survive.

Problem: this isn't fun. I would avoid a game like that like the plague. Other people are obnoxious, who wants to be forced to work with them 24/7 in what's supposed to be a relaxing recreational activity?

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Original post by dontstopdreaming
Most people here didn't answer what I found to be the main question to game designers: what can we do to remove grind, and make a meaningful game?


Let's separate the question about meaningful games from removing the mmo grind. All IMO of course...

The human mind is a learning and prediction machine. It organizes everything it sees and uses the information to predict future events. It achieves satisfaction both from being able to successfully predict outcomes, and from being surprised by something unexpected (something new to learn to predict). Games tap into this machinery by giving us things we can predict, and surprises we wish to know how to predict. Once a game has been played enough to be entirely predictable, we usually lose interest.

The human mind is an optimization engine. With it's knowledge and predictions about the world around us, it attempts to optimize our behavior. The mind can approximate the lowest energy usage to get something done given an amazing number of variables. Consider walking to the store. Immediately your mind has figured out what order to put your shoes and jacket on, which door to exit, which way to turn at each part of the path. It's even reminded you that it would be faster to drive. Games tap into this machinery by giving us choices and problems to optimize.

I find that almost all games can be broken down into some combination of these two factors. Whether it's the prediction and optimization of hand-eye-coordination in an FPS; the 'least time spent' optimization of an MMO; or the even more complex prediction and optimization challenges of other human beings in a social setting.

... that brings us back to our other question about 'what is an MMO?' and 'is there an MMO without the grind?'

Personally, I think MMOs (relative to other games) are about -- making the process of learning, predicting, and optimizing the game take longer. They do this by increasing the number of decisions the player has to make ; making it easy to advance, but hard to advance at the fastest rate; minimizing disappointment by only allowing forward progress; and making social interaction a required part of the game to assure that even when our minds can fully predict the game, we can't full predict the other humans.

When I look at MMOs like WoW, I don't see a 'grind', I see the world's largest/longest platformer. Just like Super Mario Brothers, playing the single-player wow-platformer over and over
allows you to learn lots of little secret tricks that make your path through the game more optimized and more satisfying (for the mind's machinery) than if you only did it once.

I believe players who percieve the single-player 'leveling up' in MMOs as a grind are not interested in learning more about it. They simply want to reach the end once, perhaps to play with their friends, perhaps to enjoy social-PVE, perhaps to enjoy PVP.

Therefore, if there is a way to remove the feeling of the 'grind', it might start by understand why a particular type of player percieves it as a grind, and then making it more satisfying for him.



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If you play an MMORPG, you should group with other people. I find it funny when people whine when there aren't solo features. If you want to play solo, play an RPG.

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Original post by Rahl
If you play an MMORPG, you should group with other people. I find it funny when people whine when there aren't solo features. If you want to play solo, play an RPG.


That's a pretty close-minded point of view. Most people enjoy group play some of the time, when they are in the mood, but don't enjoy it all or even most of the time. You think as soon as a person isn't in the mood for group play they should switch games? Ridiculous. The great thing about MMOs is that they are not single-faceted; an MMO should provide a virtual world in which the player can chose from a variety of activities both social and non-social. Any world lacks depth if it has no room for solo play.

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MMO's let people jump into a virtual world where you can do whatever you want. If you've ever wanted to be a hero, or wear really cool clothes and ride mythical beings and have a lot of money and people who respect you, and you wanted to have power and be better than other people and you wanted to fly and show off your skills, then you should play an MMO because thats what they're for.

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Original post by Girsanov
Or in the case of games like WoW and some MUDs, grind for PvP points after hitting the level cap.


You dont have to PvP, many players dont. In that case, you grind for emblems (to buy loot) or loot itself so yea your previous statement was correct :p

Just had to throw that out there so you dont think the only thing to do at 80 is to PvP, oh no, you gotta run those raids!!!

:)

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Original post by sunandshadow
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Original post by dontstopdreaming
I find that the feeling of purpose in MMORPG's could be created by first creating a really challenging world! And everyone has to stick together in order to survive.

Problem: this isn't fun. I would avoid a game like that like the plague. Other people are obnoxious, who wants to be forced to work with them 24/7 in what's supposed to be a relaxing recreational activity?


I'd like a game like this. Of course, it still needs a lot of work. By simply adding player driven quests and player controlled towns, the game can cater to both soloists and group players. A bit like Majesty, a mayor could put bounties for certain boss or a pay to players who accomplish tasks like killing baddies or sticking in an area to defend it. A soloist could log on, see where the cash is and go there without a group. There may or may not be other players there and the soloist may or may not get steamrolled by a random orc invasion. However, you'd need a group to take out an orc outpost to stop the orc progression, liberate resources and allow the players to progress in the game world just like you need a group to get epic loot in WoW.

The key to this idea is the world and your character are not immortal. When everything is conquered, that's it and the whole process start again. Otherwise, the game becomes stale and nothing interesting ever happens. To compensate, some bonuses can be given to veterans who proved themselves worthy in the previous world. Something like unique abilities, permanent stat bonuses or unique clothes. It requires a drastic change from the "grind and get better" approach WoW and every other MMORPG is using, but it could work as a niche game.

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Original post by Tiblanc
Quote:
Original post by sunandshadow
Quote:
Original post by dontstopdreaming
I find that the feeling of purpose in MMORPG's could be created by first creating a really challenging world! And everyone has to stick together in order to survive.

Problem: this isn't fun. I would avoid a game like that like the plague. Other people are obnoxious, who wants to be forced to work with them 24/7 in what's supposed to be a relaxing recreational activity?


I'd like a game like this. Of course, it still needs a lot of work. By simply adding player driven quests and player controlled towns, the game can cater to both soloists and group players. A bit like Majesty, a mayor could put bounties for certain boss or a pay to players who accomplish tasks like killing baddies or sticking in an area to defend it. A soloist could log on, see where the cash is and go there without a group. There may or may not be other players there and the soloist may or may not get steamrolled by a random orc invasion. However, you'd need a group to take out an orc outpost to stop the orc progression, liberate resources and allow the players to progress in the game world just like you need a group to get epic loot in WoW.

The key to this idea is the world and your character are not immortal. When everything is conquered, that's it and the whole process start again. Otherwise, the game becomes stale and nothing interesting ever happens. To compensate, some bonuses can be given to veterans who proved themselves worthy in the previous world. Something like unique abilities, permanent stat bonuses or unique clothes. It requires a drastic change from the "grind and get better" approach WoW and every other MMORPG is using, but it could work as a niche game.

I could see that as a niche game, but I wouldn't personally be in that niche market. I'd prefer to see the game kept from getting stale by the use of interactive story gameplay (which is of course primarily solo content); playing the game a second or third time would be quite different because the game would show a different face to an avatar which made different story-related choices.

I personally prefer my MMO play to be about 85% solo, 15% multiplayer, and the multiplayer content to consist mainly of chatting (both rp and non), trading, and pug multiplayer minigames (including dungeons and pvp under this category). And I strongly prefer my characters to be immortal and protected from being steamrolled.

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Hmm to me mmo is part of my life. Since i was introduced to mmos at 98/99 i have only played mmo games.

sunandshadow: Just wondering according to your play style why even bother playing mmo? whats the point. All that you can get from any game with multi-player support.


To me mmo is a world like any fictional world. A world with new rules, new contacts, new personalities to explore exploit and make footprint for my self.
Having an effect on the world and their players is for me very important.

Once explored once i understand most of the mechanics and usally get tierd of a game like Aion or WoW.
The one game i never really got tierd of was AC mostly because during thouse first years the developers where very very good with updating changing the world
having events that involved many people. Having town criers calling out about new adventures to find each new patch. It made you involve your self in the world and you became a part of it. Thay also had a very short tutorial. But instead made it so that if an other played adopted you as his vassel he would teach you the game while gaining benefit from having you as a vasssel.

But today in say wow you don't need to approach any other player till you are 80 and once you reach 80 you will probably be bored and or have missed most the fun parts of mmo anyway. I mean why play those glorified single player games with integrated multi player support? I mean even in new expansion of WoW me and my girlfriend got separated because we had progressed a quest at different speeds. she couldn't see me and i her even though geographically we stood beside each other.

Same goes for all those games calling them self mmo nowadays. Nowadays the definition of an MMO game is a lobby server with instanced games. Redicilus.

If the story is about the player then just make a single player game.


The main difference between all these different games "mmos" like wow and aion and games like diablo, cs and a game i would call REAL MMO is that in a real MMO the story isnt prewritten. The Story is ongoing and living, directed, but you can change it. Same goes for the world. Once a uberleet boss is dead he isn't a threat anymore hence he is dead for everyone. The ones who killed him is entwined into the story and the world. through developer updates and acknowledgment from npc's and such in the world. And the world is ever chaning. Creatures migrate lands terraform disasters happened towns destroyed rivers redirected lands and countries ever changing. All this by having the player as a nobody. When you start the game out you are a nobody and unless you choose to take part in the world you will still be a nobody. While the warlords conquering lands and leading armies against foul demons get the attention for their real world skills and leadership. The sage guiding newbies in the starting villages will get well known and respected by their peers long after he stops playing. Regardless the same should support the way you want to play. solo / pk / team / leader / crafter and so on. But the main focus should be that you are a nobody and none cares about you until you have made an effort to get recognized.

Why dosnt any of the number of MMO's we see today really make use of the Presistant world they are blessed with?

So in short
MMOS for me is about exploring and fun. Games should be fun. If a game isnt fun i dont play it.


Sorry for a long and messy post.
-Athos

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Original post by Athos
Hmm to me mmo is part of my life. Since i was introduced to mmos at 98/99 i have only played mmo games.

sunandshadow: Just wondering according to your play style why even bother playing mmo? whats the point. All that you can get from any game with multi-player support.


Please name a few games which deliver all that because I'm not aware of any. But, the essential part is the community, I mean there's no point getting awesome-looking clothes and a mount if no one sees them, there's no point thinking about economics and strategy if you can't discuss them with anyone else. One's roleplay identity within the world means more in the context of other players' shared imaginings, and one's feats of beating a boss, soloing a dungeon, finishing a quest, have meaning in the context that higher level players have done them before you and have nostalgia about it, while lower level players anticipate doing in the future and are impressed that you did it because they can't yet. I like to give tips and help to newbies, and see the interesting possessions higher level players have so I can form the goal of acquiring them myself. I love having other players in the world with me, I just don't want to be forced to fight either alongside them or against them. I like to do things at my own pace, and accomplish feats by myself, not with help.

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Original post by sunandshadow
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Original post by Rahl
If you play an MMORPG, you should group with other people. I find it funny when people whine when there aren't solo features. If you want to play solo, play an RPG.


That's a pretty close-minded point of view. Most people enjoy group play some of the time, when they are in the mood, but don't enjoy it all or even most of the time. You think as soon as a person isn't in the mood for group play they should switch games? Ridiculous. The great thing about MMOs is that they are not single-faceted; an MMO should provide a virtual world in which the player can chose from a variety of activities both social and non-social. Any world lacks depth if it has no room for solo play.


I Agree with you. Many people play MMO's because they enjoy playing in a world where other people are online. That fact alone creates a sense of competition via character development or content progression. I also don't see the letter "G" for the word "Group" in MMO. As to why someone would suggest that group play is mandatory is unknown to me. I think the reason many people suggest that MMO's are for group play only is that they are used to games like WoW and they feel that without group players they would not be able to find enough players for a 25 man raid.

I want to play in a MMORPG where I can make a powerfull character from solo play alone. Maybe it should take longer to accomplish, but it should still be possible. Furthermore, what would happen if there was an MMO that allowed you to create an entire party of characters? would there be any need for people group up? Would people stil have fun?

Why can't I create a dwarf that spends his entire life in a forge and ends up crafting some of the most powerfull weapons and armor in the game? Why should such a character be forced to join a 25 man raid for the best items? Why can't other players simply be in awe of his skills and purchase the items he makes? This is one of the things that really bothers me about games like Wow. I really enjoy crafting items, but when I find out that the best axe I can make is only level 70 and that I have to join a 10 man raid to find an upgrade I stop playing.

Finally, I am not convinced that group play is the main theme of wow. In wow, it is a personal desire for achievement and greed that push people to play in groups( but only because group play is rammed down their throat). Take that need away and I would bet most of those immature and anti-social players would not group up at all.

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Rise of Heroes (the MMO I am developing) is developed in such a way that Role Playing will be a major part of it. You have your own virtual life to live out how you see fit with in this virtual fantasy world. Loot will be gotten through fighting for those who want to fight or through exploring for those who would rather explore. Money will be gotten through finding your own job that you can excel at and doing it. With that money you will then be able to buy a house, Furnish that house, or even build your own kingdom. There will be no classes with in the game. At character creation you can select the quick create option where you can then select a class however all that will do is set your base stats in such a way that you would have a head start doing that class. Once in game your free to train whatever skills you want with out the limits of a class.

The list of current features:

-random weather
-Guilds
-Guild housing
-Guild Alliances
-Marriage
-Skills
-Crafting
-PvP
-PvE
-Dungeon support
-Support for indoor and outdoor areas
-Banking
-Next version will have limited support for mounts (in testing right now)
-Player housing is planned but not sure of a time table for it
-Instanced map support for group or guild battles
-Player Jobs
-Mini Games

The only grinding involved is for those who want to grind. For every one else they are sure to find something interesting to do.

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I think that the reason for grind in MMORPGs is generally to make up for lack of content. This is not a jab at the developers - content for even the best designers takes far longer to create than it does for a person to consume.

There doesn't have to be grind though, I don't think, for a game to be successful. MMORPGs are virtual chat rooms at heart, the online equivalent to a board game night or Dungeons & Dragons game. Grinding is one way that they enable that - people go on a raid in WoW, coordinate and talk and call each other names.

Grinding also has a unique benefit to the developers of creating this idea that the more time spent playing, the better your character will be. This is in contrast to skill based games like say Starcraft or Counter-Strike, where although practice is certainly important, in the end it's the player's skill and creativity that differentiates them.

There are MMOs which don't require grind, though. Armageddon MUD, for example, accomplishes this by doing away with the concept of levels (although you get better at skills as you use them) and enforcing role-playing (and perma-death). The value system in this game is social status and political clout, so the players play not to make their numbers bigger, but to increase their circle of influence. Of course, Armageddon MUD looks like a single player game in comparison to epics like WoW, and so such a system might not work on a large scale, but it does show that things can be different.

Another example is the upcoming "moderately" multi-player game called Love. From the news and the videos, it seems that here the players build cities and modify the terrain. Again, it seems like the reward here will again be respect over big numbers

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Original post by EmpireProductions
Rise of Heroes (the MMO I am developing) is developed in such a way that Role Playing will be a major part of it. You have your own virtual life to live out how you see fit with in this virtual fantasy world. Loot will be gotten through fighting for those who want to fight or through exploring for those who would rather explore. Money will be gotten through finding your own job that you can excel at and doing it. With that money you will then be able to buy a house, Furnish that house, or even build your own kingdom. There will be no classes with in the game. At character creation you can select the quick create option where you can then select a class however all that will do is set your base stats in such a way that you would have a head start doing that class. Once in game your free to train whatever skills you want with out the limits of a class.

The list of current features:

-random weather
-Guilds
-Guild housing
-Guild Alliances
-Marriage
-Skills
-Crafting
-PvP
-PvE
-Dungeon support
-Support for indoor and outdoor areas
-Banking
-Next version will have limited support for mounts (in testing right now)
-Player housing is planned but not sure of a time table for it
-Instanced map support for group or guild battles
-Player Jobs
-Mini Games

The only grinding involved is for those who want to grind. For every one else they are sure to find something interesting to do.


That sounds like a fun design. I really hope gay marriage is allowed, I get so tired of seeing MMOs have that glaring random spot of heterosexism - sometimes worse, they censor the words gay and homosexual as if they were swear words. o.O

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Quote:
Original post by 00Kevin
Furthermore, what would happen if there was an MMO that allowed you to create an entire party of characters? would there be any need for people group up? Would people stil have fun?


Atlantica Online is that game. You can form a party of yourself + 8 mercenaries and pretty much solo the whole game. Groups are limited to 3 players and are only required for harder dungeons to get better mercenaries and even then, it's possible to solo them. It was nice to be able to solo and create class synergies without relying on other people, but in the end, it got boring for me because there was almost no interaction with anyone else. If I'm going to waste time leveling up, I might as well do it on some single player RPG and get a story that isn't generic and full of engrish.

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