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Yratelev

Starting with PHP

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Hi, I'm an experienced coder (C#, C++, DirectX, etc). I've never done website design before, looking at starting with PHP. Could you guys enlighten me with the best dev tools you use? I've got the apache server, but whats a good PHP IDE? Thanks, Yratelev

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For start, it depends if you intend to work in Linux or in Windows.

If you plan to test the websites in windows, then maybe you should install a package like EasyPHP or Xamp (you get the apache, php, mysql and other tools usefull).

For IDE's, I'm currently using Eclipse with the PDT plugin (http://www.eclipse.org/pdt/) there is even a pre-built package of eclipse with PDT. It's working pretty fine for me and should also be cross-OS.
Other IDE's that should work fine, but are not free, are PHPeD and NuSphere. I haven't used them so can't say how good they are.

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XAMPP is a good choice. There used to be a plethora of PHP/MySQL packages, like Apache2Triad or WAMPPServer, but most of them are dead, went commercial or are released less frequently than XAMPP.

About IDEs, I'm a big fan of PHPEdit. You can get a free personal license by filling out a simple form. Another good free IDE is Netbeans.

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Real programmers just use a text editor. ;)

I've always used Notepad++. It's simple, free and versatile, but it if you're looking for something more than just syntax highlighting, it may not suffice.

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Quote:
Original post by WanMaster
Real programmers just use a text editor. ;)

I've always used Notepad++. It's simple, free and versatile, but it if you're looking for something more than just syntax highlighting, it may not suffice.


Ok I just -have- to make a joke, Real programmers don't do PHP :P.

I know several PHP developers, they mainly use EasyPHP cause its easy! (Tried it myself and liked it)

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I just had to recommend [link]http://www.e-texteditor.com/[/link] its wonderful, I use for all my text-editor needs and PHP is one of them ;).

OT. what are the tags for links?? (obviously not [link][/link]

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Original post by Hunter_Ex
I just had to recommend [link]http://www.e-texteditor.com/[/link] its wonderful, I use for all my text-editor needs and PHP is one of them ;).

OT. what are the tags for links?? (obviously not [link][/link]


Just use a regular <a> tag.

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I've been using DEVPHP, and am quite happy with it. I actually wrote my first 3d engine in php, as it was very easy to work with, but have now moved onto cpp/d3d to try and get a framerate better then 0.43FPS :)

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Original post by Hunter_Ex
I just had to recommend [link]http://www.e-texteditor.com/[/link] its wonderful, I use for all my text-editor needs and PHP is one of them ;).

OT. what are the tags for links?? (obviously not [link][/link]


FAQ on tags.

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I've been using phpDesigner for some time now. I'm using phpDesigner 2008 at the moment and it's great.
You'll have to pay for it, but if you're thinking of working with web design it's worth it. I think.
They've got a couple of different price plans and a 21 day trial at the web site.
And their program doesn't only support PHP. You can work with highlighted syntax in CSS, XHTML, javascript, XML, C#, Python, Java, SQL and more.
I'm really satisfied with it.

If you're not up for buying anything, I'd recommend Notepad (or as previously written Notepad++ if you want highlighted syntax).

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Yeah, why not? The IDE's only provide syntax highlights. Before I bought my IDE I programmed XHTML, CSS and PHP in regular old Notepad. You only need a browser and ISS or Apache (or any other server) installed to program.
There's not really a need for fancy programs, it's just easier with them, I think :)

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Quote:
Original post by tre
Yeah, why not? The IDE's only provide syntax highlights. Before I bought my IDE I programmed XHTML, CSS and PHP in regular old Notepad. You only need a browser and ISS or Apache (or any other server) installed to program.
There's not really a need for fancy programs, it's just easier with them, I think :)


It indeed trains your eye, but honestly, notepad is an abomination for anything beyond configuration files. And if it's only for the fact that I can't configure the tabulator to emit 8 space chars, or the inability to do regex search/replace, or just that I must type a <alt>+<region dependent shortcut key> combo to find text distinctly before or behind the current caret position, but excluding a whole file search, making it impossible to use search as a file navigation tool. Oh, and how do you enable line numbers? Apart from that there's no goto-line functionality.

On mainstream Linux distros, recommending the bundled standard text editors like gedit on GNOME or Kate on KDE, which in fact are not only simple text editors but include syntax highlighters and more facilities, would be okay. But Notepad, ..., honestly, I would even recommend vi on the console or not over Notepad to beginners.

Even nano and Pico (which are like vi and emacs programs running on a terminal) have syntax-highlighting, regex-search and a lot of configurability.

Aside from that all, with Emacs you even have a second integrated operating system.

Btw, Vi would have the free advantage of letting you appear very leet in some circles.

Okay, jokes aside: A comparison of text-editors can be found here.

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Quote:
Original post by phresnel
Quote:
Original post by tre
Yeah, why not? The IDE's only provide syntax highlights. Before I bought my IDE I programmed XHTML, CSS and PHP in regular old Notepad. You only need a browser and ISS or Apache (or any other server) installed to program.
There's not really a need for fancy programs, it's just easier with them, I think :)


It indeed trains your eye, but honestly, notepad is an abomination for anything beyond configuration files. And if it's only for the fact that I can't configure the tabulator to emit 8 space chars, or the inability to do regex search/replace, or just that I must type a <alt>+<region dependent shortcut key> combo to find text distinctly before or behind the current caret position, but excluding a whole file search, making it impossible to use search as a file navigation tool. Oh, and how do you enable line numbers? Apart from that there's no goto-line functionality.

On mainstream Linux distros, recommending the bundled standard text editors like gedit on GNOME or Kate on KDE, which in fact are not only simple text editors but include syntax highlighters and more facilities, would be okay. But Notepad, ..., honestly, I would even recommend vi on the console or not over Notepad to beginners.

Even nano and Pico (which are like vi and emacs programs running on a terminal) have syntax-highlighting, regex-search and a lot of configurability.

Aside from that all, with Emacs you even have a second integrated operating system.

Btw, Vi would have the free advantage of letting you appear very leet in some circles.

Okay, jokes aside: A comparison of text-editors can be found here.


I've no objections to the above, at all.
I merely wanted to make a point that you don't need a fancy IDE :) I also made my first recommendation to be phpDesigner, which I'm currently using and loving. I also recommended Notepad+.
I began coding HTML and later CSS and even PHP in Notepad before I began to look for IDE's for larger projects.

That's all I'm saying.

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Quote:
Original post by tre
Quote:
Original post by phresnel
Quote:
Original post by tre
Yeah, why not? The IDE's only provide syntax highlights. Before I bought my IDE I programmed XHTML, CSS and PHP in regular old Notepad. You only need a browser and ISS or Apache (or any other server) installed to program.
There's not really a need for fancy programs, it's just easier with them, I think :)


It indeed trains your eye, but honestly, notepad is an abomination for anything beyond configuration files. And if it's only for the fact that I can't configure the tabulator to emit 8 space chars, or the inability to do regex search/replace, or just that I must type a <alt>+<region dependent shortcut key> combo to find text distinctly before or behind the current caret position, but excluding a whole file search, making it impossible to use search as a file navigation tool. Oh, and how do you enable line numbers? Apart from that there's no goto-line functionality.

On mainstream Linux distros, recommending the bundled standard text editors like gedit on GNOME or Kate on KDE, which in fact are not only simple text editors but include syntax highlighters and more facilities, would be okay. But Notepad, ..., honestly, I would even recommend vi on the console or not over Notepad to beginners.

Even nano and Pico (which are like vi and emacs programs running on a terminal) have syntax-highlighting, regex-search and a lot of configurability.

Aside from that all, with Emacs you even have a second integrated operating system.

Btw, Vi would have the free advantage of letting you appear very leet in some circles.

Okay, jokes aside: A comparison of text-editors can be found here.


I've no objections to the above, at all.
I merely wanted to make a point that you don't need a fancy IDE :) I also made my first recommendation to be phpDesigner, which I'm currently using and loving. I also recommended Notepad+.
I began coding HTML and later CSS and even PHP in Notepad before I began to look for IDE's for larger projects.

That's all I'm saying.


Hm. Then all you need is an assembler for your target machine. That is, if you are not low level hardware savvy. But if you are hardware savvy, just download or order a copy of the cpu specs from your cpu vendor. It's all you need ;)

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Quote:
Original post by phresnel
Quote:
Original post by tre
Quote:
Original post by phresnel
Quote:
Original post by tre
Yeah, why not? The IDE's only provide syntax highlights. Before I bought my IDE I programmed XHTML, CSS and PHP in regular old Notepad. You only need a browser and ISS or Apache (or any other server) installed to program.
There's not really a need for fancy programs, it's just easier with them, I think :)


It indeed trains your eye, but honestly, notepad is an abomination for anything beyond configuration files. And if it's only for the fact that I can't configure the tabulator to emit 8 space chars, or the inability to do regex search/replace, or just that I must type a <alt>+<region dependent shortcut key> combo to find text distinctly before or behind the current caret position, but excluding a whole file search, making it impossible to use search as a file navigation tool. Oh, and how do you enable line numbers? Apart from that there's no goto-line functionality.

On mainstream Linux distros, recommending the bundled standard text editors like gedit on GNOME or Kate on KDE, which in fact are not only simple text editors but include syntax highlighters and more facilities, would be okay. But Notepad, ..., honestly, I would even recommend vi on the console or not over Notepad to beginners.

Even nano and Pico (which are like vi and emacs programs running on a terminal) have syntax-highlighting, regex-search and a lot of configurability.

Aside from that all, with Emacs you even have a second integrated operating system.

Btw, Vi would have the free advantage of letting you appear very leet in some circles.

Okay, jokes aside: A comparison of text-editors can be found here.


I've no objections to the above, at all.
I merely wanted to make a point that you don't need a fancy IDE :) I also made my first recommendation to be phpDesigner, which I'm currently using and loving. I also recommended Notepad+.
I began coding HTML and later CSS and even PHP in Notepad before I began to look for IDE's for larger projects.

That's all I'm saying.


Hm. Then all you need is an assembler for your target machine. That is, if you are not low level hardware savvy. But if you are hardware savvy, just download or order a copy of the cpu specs from your cpu vendor. It's all you need ;)


I guess everyone has to figure out what's most comfortable for them. The above might be true for someone who thinks of it as the most straight forward way.
And I have to say that I don't think it's really fair to compare the leap between an IDE and Notepad to the leap between Notepad and hardware assembly :)

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I have used many editors and I found WeBuilder works the best for me. I never use any of the web page designer interfaces (drag and drop components to design the page) so I can't comment on that, but the IDE is perfect for me.

The one I just bought and currently playing with is "Microsoft Expressions Web" and it looks promising so far. It actually support PHP unlike the Visual Studio 2008 editor.

Check this out: http://www.microsoft.com/Expression/products/Web_Overview.aspx

Go to the top 10 features look at a couple of the features they added/have.

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Quote:
Original post by WanMaster
Real programmers just use a text editor. ;)


For the purposes of PHP, I'd have to agree. PHP doesn't compile stuff, so you don't really need an IDE. (It's kind of like Python, it's processed at runtime.) What you do need, though, is a testing environment, and this requires a server.

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Technically PHP compiles to bytecode. ;)
But IDE's are not only useful for their "compile and run" button, they often also have a "run with debugger" button, and that alone makes PHPEdit much more useful for developing than Notepad. :)

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