#### Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

# [java] MS to eliminate Java from XP

This topic is 6054 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

## Recommended Posts

ZDNet article The hardcore java fanatics at Javalobby seem to think this is the best thing that could happen to java as everyone will be required to dl a plugin java2 jre. The trolls over at slashdot seem to think this is step 2 in the inevitable destruction of java via C#. I personally think it will depend on how good the first realse of C# actually turns out to be. If it is crap ms will have one hell of a hole to dig itself out of. The fanatic is incorruptible: if he kills for an idea, he can just as well get himself killed for one; in either case, tyrant or martyr, he is a monster. --EM Cioran Opere Citato

##### Share on other sites
Java sucks. Unfortunately, C# is just Java with a new name.

##### Share on other sites
I wouldn''t worry too much about MS getting rid of the JRE. For one, most people access Java through the web and if the site is properly setup, the user will be prompted to download the plug-in.

Also, with the release of WebStart, even Java Applications will detect the JRE and update/replace if necessary.

It will however be interesting to see how C# does in the market.

borngamer

windows xp and internet explorer 6 will still be able to download and install M$JVM 1.1.4 POS so I double that this will affect anyone, I just hope that many people opt for the plugin, as it''s a better long term solution. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I''m not talking about the free unices (which are more "unix-like" than anything), I''m talking about proprietary UNIX systems (e.g. Sparcs running Solaris, or whatever). These systems cost 5-10X more than a comparable Intel machine, and offer very little more in terms of security or stability*. It''s these types of systems that are at the end of their days. Linux and free BSD variants have very little to do with enterprise applications, since no company in it''s right mind would trust it''s mission critical apps to an OS that doesn''t have a specific support centre (though admitadly, there''s people like Redhat supporting Linux, but they''re just not in the same league as Microsoft, Sun, HP, DEC, et al...) * People who say Windows is not secure or stable, simply don''t know how to admin a windows box. War Worlds - A 3D Real-Time Strategy game in development. #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites I've done both Windows and UNIX dev. If you want raw power, stability, and true multiprocessing/protection UNIX delivers. The boxes, never, and I do mean never, go down. They don't crash and your code screams. True, they are expensive and they don't shine in areas such as UI presentation like Windows but that's not what you use them for. The other thing, while Intel is improving, they are still way behind in processor technology since their long term marriage to the x86 and all its issues. Point being, from my humble experience, if you want the most stable, fastest, and secure environment for an enterprise app UNIX is the only way to go. Now, I'm not saying NT is terrible because its not - it simply has different strengths. However, I do agree about the LINUX systems. As far as wide acceptence goes that fact that they are open source and don't have the support network companies demand is really going to hurt them. Great OS but its going to be mighty tough for them to solve the world's OS problems. Edited by - Sieggy on July 24, 2001 7:27:05 AM #### Share this post ##### Link to post ##### Share on other sites quote: Original post by Dean Harding Linux and free BSD variants have very little to do with enterprise applications, since no company in it''s right mind would trust it''s mission critical apps to an OS that doesn''t have a specific support centre (though admitadly, there''s people like Redhat supporting Linux, but they''re just not in the same league as Microsoft, Sun, HP, DEC, et al...) Funny you should put it that way. Then why does M$ run FreeBSD? Why do Sun, IBM, and HP support linux on their enterprise hardware. Does Yahoo not sound like an enterprise application? What about Hotmail? IBM is running million dollar ad campagns pushing DB2 under linux. Many experienced people have gone the road less traveled with free UNIX and have come out shining.

Propriatary UNIX is still alive and well in the larger orginizations. Windows NT/2k are making headway in departimental serving, but nothing compares cycle per cycle to UNIX box. Hands down they will win in pure IO and network applications anyday of the week. And scalibility means nothing is you are not 100% secure and 100% stable. That''s why IBM makes a killing on their mainframes they run a propritory OS that''s even more scaliable and stable than UNIX ( they run UNIX as a process not an OS ).

I''m not an OS basher, but I would never call the demise of UNIX. It will more than likley outlive me, I know my UNIX systems that I use ( barring hardware failure would ).

##### Share on other sites
Seeing as how we''re now completely offtopic, I thought I''d join in. An interesting article.

I think that''s what Dean Harding was referring to.
Now obviously, this isn''t Complete Proof That Windows Is Better Than UNIX, but I think it''s at least an indication that Windows can be somewhat fast, reliable, and scalable.

~~~~~~~~~~
Martee

##### Share on other sites
I may be off-base, but I think I saw an article about this on betanews.com. It clarified the "No Java in XP" announcement, saying that XP will not SHIP with Java, but there will be a downloadable virtual machine on the Windows Update site. It had something to do with Sun and MS''s various lawsuits over Java, somehow not shipping with Java made XP more acceptable to Sun and they dropped the suits or something. Again, I might be wrong, but I''m pretty sure this is the deal. So love it or hate it, it sounds like Windows will still have a VM available.

Anthracks

##### Share on other sites
It may be possible to plug in a jvm but if ms makes it difficult to install one, for an average user as Kodak recently complained with their photo editing software, it could be trouble. I can''t remember where I read it but someone said they couldn''t install a jvm on a xp rc. Sun said they never had any problems though. I think sun needs to make some utility that installs a jvm with the touch of a web browser button. As anyone out there who has done any tech support know, it has to be easy enough for a dead monkey to do or people will screw it up.

The fanatic is incorruptible: if he kills for an idea, he can just as well get himself killed for one; in either case, tyrant or martyr, he is a monster.
--EM Cioran

Opere Citato

##### Share on other sites
For companies building enterprise apps and technically savy users getting the jvm should be no big deal. Its Joe Six pack that almost certainly won''t take the time to download and install the jvm that is the larger concern.

Not to beat it to death, but as far as UNIX goes Snowmoon is right. Stats and studies only take you so far and then there is the real world. I love my NT set - I beat it to death and it keeps on trucking but it still does not compare to a UNIX machine when it comes to speed and stability. Anyone can bring an NT machine to its knees if you try hard enough. You have to try a HECK of a lot harder to do the same in UNIX - if you even can.

##### Share on other sites
Hotmail has been migrated to Win2K.