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Is it possible.

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I think I''ll focuss on somthing a little more simple and a good starter mabey. How many people would want to play a game where you are placed in a city and you can do anything, rob a bank, go on a car chase, a shooting spree, do contract killing, and have cops chase you on foot and in a car etc... Now this does sound like a Driver type game but it adds the ability to do so much more. Features like day and night changes, weather, and multiplayer would be a blast. Now this was my first idea befor I tried writing somthing of a sci-fi but this to me sounds more fun.

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kinda like extended GTA, i never played Driver though... Sure, but I wouldn''t start this project as a beginner, you''ll probably stall... good luck anyway..

cya,
Phil

Visit Rarebyte!
and no!, there are NO kangaroos in Austria (I got this questions a few times over in the states

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kinda like extended GTA, i never played Driver though... Sure, but I wouldn''t start this project as a beginner, you''ll probably stall... good luck anyway..

cya,
Phil

Visit Rarebyte!
and no!, there are NO kangaroos in Austria (I got this questions a few times over in the states

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amazingly enough, this is almost exactly the same idea i had for a game in the past few days. although i have nowhere to start, have never programmed a game, and am barely getting by in c++, i''ve had great dreams of what i could make if i knew how. in my idea though, the game would be massively multiplayer, and players could choose what to be (i.e. the police, a criminal, just an ordinary person, military personnel, etc.) and there would be a lot of interaction with the game (everything would be deformable, lots of usable vehicles, etc.). just my thoughts

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Sounds fun...But if you''re a beginner you might want to do some other stuff. Either way, I can''t stress the importance of planning ahead. Don''t just sit in front of the computer and expect to crank out a game. Use paper, draw diagrams, maps, etc. Don''t go in blind, take it slow and make sure you''re not overwhelming yourself. If you do get overwhelmed just back off, think about it, then try again. You might even want a partner-someone who can write code, draw diagrams, and come up with new ideas (Alway''s helpful!). Speaking of ideas-come up with tons. Better to think up 100 ideas and throw away 50 than think up 60 and throw away 10. (Remember, I made these numbers up. Feel free to think up more-or less.)

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Well I think I''ll give this a shot.

If there is anyone who wants to join me email me.

mitchell002@home.com

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I thought of something similar the first time I played GTA (great game). It''s interesting that all the "career" options you present are criminal; homegrown89 presented additional options but raised a major difficulty - limitations/restrictions.

A huge (infinite) variety of occupations means data, stories, planning - a lot of work! Completely deformable environments mean 3D graphics (sprites for all the various stages of [dis]repair are no small feat); lots of usable vehicles, in 3D, means tons of data. Add human and building models and you quickly have an asset management nightmare on your hands. And we haven''t even started talking about gameplay/logic!

I''m not trying to dampen your enthusiams - by no means! I''m tryiing to point out some of the aspects you''ll need to consider when designing, the difficulties you''ll need to overcome. You''ll need to constantly review your designs with a competent programmer/developer to estimate their feasibility and/or possible solutions to specific implementation problems. But it''s definitely doable.

Keep us posted!

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Hey Ominious,

Not to deter you, but as someone who''s been thinking about open ended design a lot think carefully about the UI, game systems, and gameplay that form something like this. You can find that it gets very hairy after you scratch the surface.

For example, if you can steal, can you fence your goods? If there are contracts on others, are there FBI types and criminals who can counter you? If you go on a shooting spree, does SWAT show up? What happens when you fail? How does combat work? What''s the UI for driving vs. moving around.

Lots of stuff to think about. The more freedom, the more work you''re gonna have to do to keep things unified. Otherwise you risk ending up with the kind of problem GTA had: Fun driving, but sucky walk-around mode.

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

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Pre-compiled game scripting is one way to go, that way you can add businesses, busines types, etc. This does mean that your world/story framework will be a bit hairy, because it would need to be mega extensible and still fast (hence pre-compiling).

Want to be an organ grinder? Script your model behaviors and skin yourself a monkey''s uncle.

-------------
-WarMage
...nobody knoooooows.. the trouble i''ve seeeeen.. nobody knows cos I kill em to keep dey mouf shut.

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Let''s start with rendering.

Well the technical difficulties are my main concern, I would probably first use a 3d engine that can support a huge 3d environment such a the genesis 3d classic engine when it comes out. Then extend on that on adding a LOD managment system for good graphics and great performance. As for game world I would have an outside .bsp and when the player goes into buildings they are taken to a separte .bsp of that build on the inside so that the ouside is no longer being rendered and it takes strain off the system and allows highly detailed interiors.

Control would be easy like a third and first person view, where the mouse moves the view around and the arow keys move the player, all of course should be accesible to the player if he wants to change the controls.

Having multiple cars accessible to the player is an easy job since all the car models will have the same animations but slightly different depending on the make of the vehical, it''s just taking the control away from the computer AI and giving it to the player.

However the real problem is in game scripting and the complexity needed to create a living environment to simulate reality. Like have a NPC know how to call the police (to start a count down timer) until they arrive. This means that each NPC would have to be scripted separatly with various day to day scheduals. So they don''t just stand around like zombies. Also scripted sequences and things like that. And this is only if the player doesn''t interact with them.

As for gameplay I only focussed on the crime side because it seems to be more popular. I asked around, and the responses I got were that why walk an old lady across the street when you could hit her with a half-ton. But I will also want the option to do some good like saving lives, and in a sence aiming to be a hero.

I am open to any sugesstions and any help from anyone who feels they can tackle this beast.

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quote:
Original post by Ominous
Well the technical difficulties are my main concern, I would probably first use a 3d engine that can support a huge 3d environment such a the genesis 3d classic engine when it comes out. Then extend on that on adding a LOD managment system for good graphics and great performance. As for game world I would have an outside .bsp and when the player goes into buildings they are taken to a separte .bsp of that build on the inside so that the ouside is no longer being rendered and it takes strain off the system and allows highly detailed interiors.


Hmm. BSP for dynamic exterior environments. Sure - not! You''ll be able to partition the buildings themselves, but you''ll still need a decent amount of code to handle all the traffic (both vehicular and pedestrian). And if your world is deformable, you wont be able to use BSP at all (you can''t recalculate a BSP tree between frames). Keep thinking.

Here''s one (a thought) for ya: Volition''s Red Faction has a deformable world and uses a raycasting algorithm to implement collision detection. You might want to look into it.

quote:
Control would be easy like a third and first person view, where the mouse moves the view around and the arow keys move the player, all of course should be accesible to the player if he wants to change the controls.


How about interacting with objects? how do you jack a car? how do you stick up the local bank?

quote:
Having multiple cars accessible to the player is an easy job since all the car models will have the same animations but slightly different depending on the make of the vehical, it''s just taking the control away from the computer AI and giving it to the player.


Then all your cars will handle the same way, destroying the illusion. The cars in GTA had different driving characteristics; the Porka (think Porsche) was fast and cornered tight. The Comanche or so (Lamborghini Countache) too. The school bus, OTOH, swung in wide circles and accelerated slowly. The limo accelerated slowly but had a high top speed and was surprisingly drivable.

It''ll need more than that.

quote:
However the real problem is in game scripting and the complexity needed to create a living environment to simulate reality. Like have a NPC know how to call the police (to start a count down timer) until they arrive. This means that each NPC would have to be scripted separatly with various day to day scheduals. So they don''t just stand around like zombies. Also scripted sequences and things like that. And this is only if the player doesn''t interact with them.


How about "mob" AI? Since most of your actions will be observed by several NPCs (rob a bank - everybody there sees it), the crowd AI knows to call the cops. It then looks for the closest free NPC to a phone (or cell phone?) and starts the timer once the NPC "dials". And so forth.

quote:
As for gameplay I only focussed on the crime side because it seems to be more popular. I asked around, and the responses I got were that why walk an old lady across the street when you could hit her with a half-ton. But I will also want the option to do some good like saving lives, and in a sence aiming to be a hero.


Well, we generally want to do things in games that we can''t do in real life, or might not do even if we had the opportunity (like be a petty thief, launder money, murder that damn paperboy, etc). I think you might want to think about a scripting architecture that allows new objectives, assets and behaviors to be added to the game (making it truly open ended).

Good luck! With a project this big and ambitious, you might actually need it. (I like, though!)

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In responce to your questions and confusion.

I know a BSP is solid and at this point that''s all I''m aiming for right now. Destructable parts would be done in much the same way Half-Life does it. Also control of the vehical would vary but the animations would remain similar.

The use a skelital animation would make it possible for more objects to be placed in the view at one time and allow cars to all be accesible to the player because there once the bones are animated for one car, all car model animations are done. This also means more time can be spent making the actual model for the vehical rather then animating it. And as for control yes all cars will handle differently (This is a given) and remember driving is only one part of the game.

Hard coded AI will handel all the things like how to move around, call for help, chase, run away and die. As well as how to drive using a layed out path on which to drive.

An option screen will apear befor the game starts in creating the players character to allow the player to be the type of person they want like a cop, ordinary person etc... to allow different things to happen.

In the design doc all these things will be looked over closly and details smoothed out. To create a design that is actually possible.








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