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Hi, Does anyone have any idea of the bandwidth requirements for a MMORPG? If you were running something of a UO/Everquest nature, what sort of Internet communication would be required for, say, 100 users to be connected simultaneously? Hoffs

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Hoffs
Hi,

Does anyone have any idea of the bandwidth requirements for a MMORPG?

If you were running something of a UO/Everquest nature, what sort of Internet communication would be required for, say, 100 users to be connected simultaneously?


Hoffs


Assumming that all the players can logon with a decent connection. My guess would be at least Cable or DSL.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Set some bandwidth targets for the users. From what i hear Everquest uses less than 100 bytes/sec per user. So about 100 users * 100 bytes/sec = 10kB/sec or * 8 = 80 kilobits/sec. Or approximately 2x the maximum bandwidth of a 56k modem. A cable connection can hit 100+kB/sec. But usually mine gets around 50kB/sec. So a cable connection can support approx 500 Everquest users, no bad, charging 10 bucks/user = 5000k! 8^) though the cable companines explicity forbid running servers which is what your doing 8^)

-ddn

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Of course, you could always get buisness-class SDSL, which allows for servers to be run (as long as you dont resell the bandwidht ie: commercial websites/procy servers)

There is even an SDSL provider which allows you to have up to 16 bonded 2mbit SDSL lines

--LordKaT

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I use a local ISP www.inficad.com for my DSL connection. I can go up to a 768k connection at $100 a month. I currently pay 40 for a 256k with a static IP.

Just code your messages really tight (script whenever possible) to keep them small. To test bandwidth usage I use McAfee Firewall (practically free) which logs bytes transfered (send and recieve) for every program using the LAN running on the
computer.

I also have an ingame display which reports the ping time (time to send a message and for the server to respond to it) as well as bytes recieved every second not including overhead.

It''s a good way to see what some problem areas are.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com




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Where did you get the 100 byte figure? That is too small. My information says Asheron''s Call, EQ, and UO are all around 1 Kbyte/sec bandwidth usage. Which means an 8 Mbit connection would be required to support 1000 users.

Hosting an MMORPG on any cable or DSL line will be an excercise in futility. It''s probably OK for dev work and simple testing, but it''s definitely not going to cut it if you want to actually run a game.

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Sorry, but could any of you tell me whats faster then cable/dsl? What can you get thats better? Just curios.
BTW, maybe for a MMORPG(sp?) just starting out maybe a connection that would only take a few hundred users would be enough. Then if you got more people(ie enough cash to justify it) take the server down for a day and stick in the better connect.

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"Hosting an MMORPG on any cable or DSL line will be an excercise in futility."

Hmmm...

If you can get enough players where you need more than a cable or DSL for bandwidth reasons, you''re going to have enough interest to get financial support. If not, gimme a call and I''ll publish it ; )

My Cable is average and I could support 50 players. 50 Players...that''s what, 10 times as many as you''d have during development...

G''luck,
-Alamar

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You think you could host 50 players on your cable connection? I think you are mistaken. Have you tried it?

Why don''t you start up a Quake 3 or a Tribes server, bring the server data rate down to 2K/sec, call 50 of your closest friends, and then see how it plays.

Better yet, start your own UOX shard and see how many people you can host...

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It really depends on how tight your code is and what you need to send. In my case it''s very little.

I need to retest numbers to get any specifics. The code has been cleaned up quite a bit since the last official test 3 months ago.

Just code and see what you can do.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

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Guest Anonymous Poster
There was a discussion about how much bandwidth those games used in the past, that was the number i remebered but then i could be wrong. Someone should poll their bandwidth usage during such games and report back. I''m thinking its around 100 bytes but i could be wrong.

Good Luck

-ddn

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You probably would want an SDSL line for small groups any more than ten and you want an OC3, but if you are a rich boy(Bill Gates style) get an OC48...

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Heya,

I used to work for Nortel in the OC48 division and even if you are very rich you probably couldn''t afford one anyhow. My advice would be to go for a T1 or T3 line if you are serious about having a lot of people on the server.. The progression in price/bandwidth goes something like this:

(Note the kbps is Kilo-BITS-per-second and KB/s is Kilo-BYTES)
dsl - 256kbps to 1500kbps
cable - 256kbps to 3000kbps
t1 - 1544kbps, $1,200/month
t2 - 6312kbps, $8,000/month
t3 - 44073kbps, $28,000/month
ds3 - 89472kbps, $35,000/month
oc3 - 155mbps, $49,000/month
oc12 - 622mbps - a lot higher
oc48 - 2.488gbps - you wouldn''t believe me if i told you
oc192 - 9.958gbps - stratospheric

So considering that if you wanted to have 5000 users connected to the server with a data rate of 32kbps (or 4KB/s, very high for a mmorpg) you would need 160000kbps or an oc3 to service them. For your 100 people, you would need 3200kbps or just above the range of a cable modem, maybe a t2 or t3. They are all very expensive though.

Premandrake

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Using the NPC bot client for Tombstone: Vendetta to simulate a single character walking around...

89Bytes per second were sent up from the client per second. I have a 640kbps download speed ADSL connection. Which means I can handle 920 connections at max on that side.

72bytes were sent from the server per second. At 256kbps that's 455 connections.

A 56k modem user can handle about 80 of those characters at one time.

Here's a chart for to estimate the number of players allowed to be interacting per second.

  

A. Max Bytes Per Second
B. Bytes Per Character
C. Number of Characters in View Per Connection
D. Max Connections

A B C D
32768 72 10 45.51111
32768 72 9 50.5679
32768 72 8 56.88889
32768 72 7 65.01587
32768 72 6 75.85185
32768 72 5 91.02222
32768 72 4 113.7778
32768 72 3 151.7037
32768 72 2 227.5556
32768 72 1 455.1111





Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

Edited by - KalvinB on July 25, 2001 2:41:25 PM

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quote:
Original post by Premandrake
Heya,

I used to work for Nortel in the OC48 division and even if you are very rich you probably couldn''t afford one anyhow. My advice would be to go for a T1 or T3 line if you are serious about having a lot of people on the server.. The progression in price/bandwidth goes something like this:

(Note the kbps is Kilo-BITS-per-second and KB/s is Kilo-BYTES)
dsl - 256kbps to 1500kbps
cable - 256kbps to 3000kbps
t1 - 1544kbps, $1,200/month
t2 - 6312kbps, $8,000/month
t3 - 44073kbps, $28,000/month
ds3 - 89472kbps, $35,000/month
oc3 - 155mbps, $49,000/month
oc12 - 622mbps - a lot higher
oc48 - 2.488gbps - you wouldn''t believe me if i told you
oc192 - 9.958gbps - stratospheric

So considering that if you wanted to have 5000 users connected to the server with a data rate of 32kbps (or 4KB/s, very high for a mmorpg) you would need 160000kbps or an oc3 to service them. For your 100 people, you would need 3200kbps or just above the range of a cable modem, maybe a t2 or t3. They are all very expensive though.

Premandrake


Ok, I don''t have $50000 a month to spend(but my heart is beating faster just thinking about internet that good), but my curiosty is aroused how much higher can you get? I promise to belive you if you tell me how much oc12,oc48 and oc192 cost :-).
BTW, has anyone considered wrting to the everquest company or something to see what they use? They might tell you.

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oc768 is about 4GBps or about 32Gbps.
QWest has the capibility to do this, the other providers can go up to 192 (which is where QWest is now), last time I checked AT&T had oc48 as thier backbone (they may have upgraded since then).
And I wouldn''t be surprised if the bandwidth requirements of EQ are considered trade secrets.

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Remember that some connections like Cable or Modems (not sure about DSL?) have the following habit:

Uploading data will reduce the max data that can be downloaded per second. I can get 468kb/s downstream, and 16kb/s upstream. BUT! If I upload 10kb/s the download will get lower than half of the max.

Btw, has any game server surpassed OC3? I was just wondering, might be a bit silly question...

Almar

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