Quote:Original post by DbproguyThis is a sure sign that you should not ask this friend for advice. How many games has HE written?
I had a friend (who is a linux lover) tell me that I would produce much better games if I studied and used OpenGL with Ubuntu instead of using anything Windows related.
Windows vs. Ubuntu
Your games aren't going to be any "better" if you make them on or for linux. One thing you do get if you make a game for linux is alot of people hungry for games. So you might get noticed a little easier if your game is for linux.
Let me bring a third viewpoint here, since I prefer to develop on a Mac [wink]
From my perspective, Windows has a bearable user interface, a halfway-decent IDE (visual studio), and a distinct lack of everything else (command line tools, filesystem and network interoperability, etc.).
Linux, on the other hand, has some of the worst GUI experiences in existence (and I have tried *every* flavour of linux GUI and WM), no decent IDEs, all of which is balanced by spectacular command line tools, and a truly amazing degree of support for anything you might want to do (networking, servers, etc.).
With the Mac, I pretty much get the best of both worlds: a very pleasant user experience and IDE, and support for almost all the tools and packages of the linux world. On the downside, we get often sub-par graphics drivers, and ports of useful software can take a while.
These days I run a MacBook for school, work and general computing, and have a desktop dual-booting Windows XP (soon to be 7) and Ubuntu for games development. I can't say I find the dev box all that comfortable to work with in either configuration, but I can't afford a suitable Mac Pro...
From my perspective, Windows has a bearable user interface, a halfway-decent IDE (visual studio), and a distinct lack of everything else (command line tools, filesystem and network interoperability, etc.).
Linux, on the other hand, has some of the worst GUI experiences in existence (and I have tried *every* flavour of linux GUI and WM), no decent IDEs, all of which is balanced by spectacular command line tools, and a truly amazing degree of support for anything you might want to do (networking, servers, etc.).
With the Mac, I pretty much get the best of both worlds: a very pleasant user experience and IDE, and support for almost all the tools and packages of the linux world. On the downside, we get often sub-par graphics drivers, and ports of useful software can take a while.
These days I run a MacBook for school, work and general computing, and have a desktop dual-booting Windows XP (soon to be 7) and Ubuntu for games development. I can't say I find the dev box all that comfortable to work with in either configuration, but I can't afford a suitable Mac Pro...
Quote:Original post by MadMax1992
It's just that windows has better ('better' is ofcourse open for discussion, at least the tools are free) tools and windows has the largest market share. So if you want a bigger audience for your game: choose windows!
To be fair: there a lot of cross platform libraries out there so you don't have to decide to either target Win32 XOR Linux but you can actually target Linux, Mac and Win32 if you utilize libraries that support these platforms. It could be argued that cross platform programming brings a lot of other hassles with it, but that's a slightly different topic.
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
Linux, on the other hand, has some of the worst GUI experiences in existence (and I have tried *every* flavour of linux GUI and WM)
Depends on your idea of what constitutes a good GUI experience, of course. :) I personally prefer something light on system resources that stays the heck outta my way, which Windows does not offer me.
As others have hinted, though, this toes the dangerous line into flamewar territory. I'm tempted to do some arguing myself. But I will just correct one point:
Quote:So if you want a bigger audience for your game: choose windows!
Obviously this is not true. If you want a bigger audience for your game, choose cross-platform libraries.
As for OpenGL specifically...learning OpenGL won't make your game better, but it does allow you to run on more platforms, whereas using DirectX, XNA, and pretty much anything else that Microsoft creates all lock you into their own platforms. OpenGL can run on almost every platform available that supports 3D acceleration, if you include OpenGL's embedded little brother OpenGL ES which is supported on most handhelds. The only exceptions I know of are Xbox 360 and Zune.
Quote:Original post by lmeliorOf course - and note that I classified Window's GUI as merely 'bearable'.
Depends on your idea of what constitutes a good GUI experience, of course. :)
For me, a good GUI experience implies that I never, *ever* have to open a command line (unless I choose to) - the many configuration tools under linux which are thinly veiled tcl/tk scripts are probably my biggest beef.
Quote:Better yet, don't tie yourself into *any* languages/APIs/platforms at all. Learn to program, not a programming language. Learn 3D graphics, not OpenGL or Direct3D.Quote:So if you want a bigger audience for your game: choose windows!Obviously this is not true. If you want a bigger audience for your game, choose cross-platform libraries.
If you know 'how' things work, then using any particular API or language is relatively simple.
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
Better yet, don't tie yourself into *any* languages/APIs/platforms at all. Learn to program, not a programming language. Learn 3D graphics, not OpenGL or Direct3D.
If you know 'how' things work, then using any particular API or language is relatively simple.
I wasn't a fan of your Mac reply, it just seemed that you blasted Windows and Linux.
But this is completely true, I think this needs to be taken to heart. If you learn how to program then you can easily switch languages when you need too.
Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
With the Mac, I pretty much get the best of both worlds: a very pleasant user experience and IDE...
I like the Mac user experience, but Xcode is an awful IDE in many, many measurable ways. Its debugger is mediocre; its workspace is poorly managed (the Project window, which I don't mind being a separate window, is a weak substitute for Visual Studio's Solution Explorer, and its Files tab can't watch folders and doesn't separate implementation and header files); it doesn't allow you to set certain useful properties on a global, permanent basis (it would be nice to be able to specify that all code windows from a given project be grouped); its code completion is terrible; it doesn't even let you indent and outdent with TAB! You have to use Cmd+] and Cmd+[
Project properties vs Target properties - identical windows so you can't tell which is which by inspection, and no markings in the title bar (especially if you have a target with the same name as your project, which is the norm). The only superlative part of Xcode is Interface Builder, and even that is based on an amazingly unintuitive model of deferred symbolic resolution.
I miss Visual Studio. [sad]
I also have to say my few cents here.
Earlier I have been working on Windows (Visual Studio ...), during my the first semesters at university I switched to linux and up until now I seen no reason to switch back to windows anytime in the future.
Why? I just found the perfect development environment for my purpose.
That is "bash" + "vim".
I usually open several( around 10) tabs in the bash, with each running vim showing some files.
I can work on my programming projects for hours without even touching the mouse.
Switching to linux makes no sense for me if you indent to use GUI applications for development, thats the strength of Windows in conjunction with Visual Studio.
However, if you are willing to dive into the world of bash+vim you should be prepared to
having to learn the mechanics, which have a steep learning curve.
I usually takes years in order to find out all the little tricks involved.
I consider my self a linux newbie after more than 5 years, there are a lot of very very useful features I haven t touched already, that would boost my productivity.
My personal experience is, that is way less cumbersome to work with bash+vim than it is to use all these GUI front ends.
Just be prepared, its not that easy to just switch to linux, you will need several years.
Just my experience.
No rant here.
Earlier I have been working on Windows (Visual Studio ...), during my the first semesters at university I switched to linux and up until now I seen no reason to switch back to windows anytime in the future.
Why? I just found the perfect development environment for my purpose.
That is "bash" + "vim".
I usually open several( around 10) tabs in the bash, with each running vim showing some files.
I can work on my programming projects for hours without even touching the mouse.
Switching to linux makes no sense for me if you indent to use GUI applications for development, thats the strength of Windows in conjunction with Visual Studio.
However, if you are willing to dive into the world of bash+vim you should be prepared to
having to learn the mechanics, which have a steep learning curve.
I usually takes years in order to find out all the little tricks involved.
I consider my self a linux newbie after more than 5 years, there are a lot of very very useful features I haven t touched already, that would boost my productivity.
My personal experience is, that is way less cumbersome to work with bash+vim than it is to use all these GUI front ends.
Just be prepared, its not that easy to just switch to linux, you will need several years.
Just my experience.
No rant here.
Quote:Original post by Basiror
Why? I just found the perfect development environment for my purpose.
That is "bash" + "vim".
I usually open several( around 10) tabs in the bash, with each running vim showing some files.
I've done a fair amount of bash+vim work along those lines at my current job, and I have to say that I still prefer Visual Studio + Eclipse. But what it really comes down to is that you should choose the tools that make *you* productive. In reality, that's going to come down to a fairly personal decision
At any rate, I think everyone agrees that taking the following ...
Quote:I would produce much better games if I studied and used OpenGL with Ubuntu instead of using anything Windows related.
... as some sort of absolute truth is not a good idea.
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