Yeah, Visual Studio C++ 2008 Express is actually pretty good. I switched from some older non-free compilers/IDE's to this a few months ago, and have been using it with great results. It's good enough to use for professional coding, depending on what you need to do, and is a really easy choice for educational or hobbyist stuff. And the Standard version isn't all that expensive, if you need some more features.

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
Hehe. Well I am quite happy with Eclipse (and I am on Ubuntu - never boot Windows except for playing games, which means very rarely). But for those scenarios you mention, you are right - one would want something lightweight just to look at random code in random languages. Fortunately, gedit (Ubuntu + Gnome's default editor) has excellent syntax highlighting for a large variety of languages, which is all I ever need in those scenarios. I use it extensively to edit XML game files.

Ah, the Linux scene really seems to specialize in the raw hack-and-slash text editor.

I used Ubuntu for a brief stint, but I had a few problems with the update manager, MonoDevelop and NetBeans both blew up in my face, and I went overboard getting that pretty Compiz crap running and decided I really didn't understand how the hell it worked or what I'd screwed with in getting it in place. >_>
I might do a reinstall soon, but I'm less of a fan of dual-booting and the local security hole (I know, personal computer, local security [lol]) it brings up - that and I'm to impatient to reboot computers unless I really have to. :P

I got a chance to use gedit. It seemed decent, but I didn't like having to bring up the console to sudo my way into a GRUB configuration file. I'm probably missing something significant here, but I don't see why gedit couldn't prompt me for the password rather than spitting out an error and giving up.

Quote:Original post by kbar
Definitely take another look at Visual Studio C++ 2008 Express Edition. Note that I wrote 2008, it has come along way from the 2005 version.

and

Quote:Original post by Aardvajk
The only real major restriction that Express has over the pro versions in this respect that I'm aware of is the lack of the visual resource editor.

Well, since nobody's bringing up the task of downloading the Windows SDK (my memory's hazy, I think it was the Windows SDK), and hacking one of the project profiles to set it up for Win32 development and have the basic Win32 boilerplate code auto-generate, I'll assume that's only a bad memory from 2005, and that VC++ 2008 Express actually does have everything set up for you, and everything's right with the world again. Lovely. :)

Anyway, I still recommend DreamSpark if you're eligible.

Quote:Original post by Fenrisulvur
I used Ubuntu for a brief stint, but I had a few problems with the update manager, MonoDevelop and NetBeans both blew up in my face, and I went overboard getting that pretty Compiz crap running and decided I really didn't understand how the hell it worked or what I'd screwed with in getting it in place. >_>
I might do a reinstall soon, but I'm less of a fan of dual-booting and the local security hole (I know, personal computer, local security [lol]) it brings up - that and I'm to impatient to reboot computers unless I really have to. :P

I can walk up to your pc with a little floppy or cd and boot into my own linux to mount your partitions and bypass your security alltogether, you know. Unless every OS on your PC encrypts their entire partition, which seems doubtful. I solve the reboot problem easily by the way - I just don't reboot, Ubuntu does everything I need it to.

I have had some negative experience with Compiz too, it slows crap down or makes windows behave strangely. Fortunately, eye candy is not as important as functionality and Compiz is straightforward to disable. I admit it looked pretty though. Dunno about the rest - the update manager is straightforward, and if you want fine-grained detail you can use Synaptic. Both NetBeans and Eclipse run very fine on Ubuntu, and I have used both to develop projects, however in my experience you first need to uninstall the opensource JDK and install Sun's JDK. In their infinite wisdom (doubtlessly influenced by Debian's attitutes) the guys at Canonical decided to not make Sun's JDK the default. Again, Synaptic can do this for you in five clicks, but you need to be aware of it to do it.

Quote:Original post by Fenrisulvur
I got a chance to use gedit. It seemed decent, but I didn't like having to bring up the console to sudo my way into a GRUB configuration file. I'm probably missing something significant here, but I don't see why gedit couldn't prompt me for the password rather than spitting out an error and giving up.

Just the way linux security works. Before sudo came along you'd have had to login as root on the console. Some programs, as you have doubtlessly noticed, do prompt for your password, so it's not theoretically impossible, probably by spawning another process with the right ownership.

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
I can walk up to your pc with a little floppy or cd and boot into my own linux to mount your partitions and bypass your security alltogether, you know. Unless every OS on your PC encrypts their entire partition, which seems doubtful.

Hence the (I know, personal computer, local security [lol]) remark. :)

It might be possible to close out the bootable floppy/CD route with a passworded BIOS and the HDD set as first priority for boot, though, but I'm the first to admit I don't really know what I'm talking about here. >_>

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
I solve the reboot problem easily by the way - I just don't reboot, Ubuntu does everything I need it to.

Yeah, this is always how it turns out, eh? Unfortunately I can't really afford the time and/or productivity wasted while I research and familiarize myself with a whole new operating system.

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
I have had some negative experience with Compiz too, it slows crap down or makes windows behave strangely. Fortunately, eye candy is not as important as functionality and Compiz is straightforward to disable. I admit it looked pretty though.

On this note, and I hate to admit it, eye candy rates as a significant factor in selecting an operating system to me. I even prefer to steer clear of Windows XP since Vista'a Aero hooked me in. Ubuntu has a nice colour scheme going for it at first glance, but some of the assets remind me of oldschool Mac OS, and I didn't adapt well to some of the fonts in Firefox. (you call that Arial?)

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
Dunno about the rest - the update manager is straightforward, and if you want fine-grained detail you can use Synaptic.

I agree - but I was pulling updates over unstable networks at the time, and something went awry. My Vista install suffered, too, but the difference was I could be bothered to do something about that.

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
Both NetBeans and Eclipse run very fine on Ubuntu, and I have used both to develop projects, however in my experience you first need to uninstall the opensource JDK and install Sun's JDK. In their infinite wisdom (doubtlessly influenced by Debian's attitutes) the guys at Canonical decided to not make Sun's JDK the default. Again, Synaptic can do this for you in five clicks, but you need to be aware of it to do it.

Once again, the fault was (probably) on my end, but I didn't feel compelled to do anything about it.

There's a whole set of proprietary cooties that Ubuntu try to keep off the distro by default - codecs, device driver binary blobs, etc - so that they try to go with an open source JDK (OpenJDK and/or IcedTea? Is that done yet?) doesn't really surprise me. I pretty much installed these things as soon as I stumbled upon them, because, really, I'd prefer my operating system see my video card, and I'm not about to convert thousands of media files. I didn't catch the JDK bit, though.

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
Just the way linux security works. Before sudo came along you'd have had to login as root on the console. Some programs, as you have doubtlessly noticed, do prompt for your password, so it's not theoretically impossible, probably by spawning another process with the right ownership.

I should probably embrace the spirit of free software and make the change myself. >_>

Quote:Original post by Cygon
I don't know what you're referring to, but the only issue with Visual C++ 2005 Express I know of was that it didn't include the Windows SDK, so you couldn't just install, create a project and #include <windows.h>.

This is exactly what I'm referring to, yes. :)

From memory one of the available project types had to be mangled to acclimatise to Win32 development, whilst the full VS2005 didn't require this and offered various other project types. Probably trivial, granted - I have no idea what the significance of the other breeds of project was, and definitely never used them - but I'm labelling it poor form anyway because it's a nitpick Microsoft could've easily pre-empted.

Quote:Original post by Cygon
Since lots of stupid people beginners had trouble getting the Windows SDK installed,

Please don't browbeat the newbies for not having absorbed as much a posteriori as you.

Setting up a compiler can be a pain in the arse for a newbie with no idea what they're doing and no idea where to start, when they should first and foremost be concerned with learning to actually write algorithms. I spent longer than I should've had to, when I first started out, trying to get the Digital Mars compiler I mentioned above working - mining through the depths of online documentation and FAQs for information that should've been collected into one place and meticulously explained for beginners. Ultimately it's not hard to set up by any stretch of the imagination, but the guys who built it and/or maintain the documentation are so completely immersed in the esoterica of the technology and the field that it doesn't strike them that random detail X is something a newbie may not know or infer*.
This is not the sort of user experience I want to see beginners coming through now having, and this is why I'm happy to tap away several paragraphs for people like the OP here - and also why I'd hope Microsoft would know better and send their entry-level IDEs out pre-configured from the start.

*This is also a reason why I'm a fan of Steve Heller's book, linked above. His pupil's queries might not correlate perfectly with those of the reader, but she does a good job of pulling up the lecture for a lot of the little things.

Quote:Original post by Cygon
this was changed for Visual C++ 2008 Express. It now includes the Windows SDK and you can compile virtually anything out-of-the-box.

Excellent, I have no reason not to recommend VC++ 2008 Express, then. :)

Also, I still recommend trying DreamSpark. No reason you shouldn't have all languages, interoperable, in the one suite, and all the other tools available if you find a need for one of them at whatever point.

Quote:Original post by Fenrisulvur
It might be possible to close out the bootable floppy/CD route with a passworded BIOS and the HDD set as first priority for boot, though, but I'm the first to admit I don't really know what I'm talking about here. >_>

It's also possible to remove the harddrive and install it in another PC. Depending on your PC though this might be a permanent procedure, but I doubt that will stop someone (though it's probably easier for a thief to just cart off the whole thing).

Quote:Original post by Fenrisulvur
On this note, and I hate to admit it, eye candy rates as a significant factor in selecting an operating system to me. I even prefer to steer clear of Windows XP since Vista'a Aero hooked me in.

You should be on a Mac. Tiger/Leopard/(Snow Leopard most likely also) are very pretty. I'm very impressed with Macs (we have a bunch), despite the handicapped rodents. Hmm, I should see about getting development tools running on a Mac.

Quote:Original post by Fenrisulvur
(OpenJDK and/or IcedTea? Is that done yet?)

OpenJDK is the Ubuntu default, yes. I hear it works with LWJGL even, but it didn't like Eclipse the last time I tried that route, which admittedly was something like two years ago. It might be better now, but like you, I can't be bothered to check since I don't bend over backwards just to keep my environment pure open source.

We've gone quite a bit off topic, but the original question has been answered, in my opinion :D