Quote:Original post by Mike.Popoloski
Except that's not how it was at all. The download page for Visual C++ Express 2005 had it *explicitly* mentioned as a step to take if you wanted to do Win32 development, and gave a list of steps and quick link to the download of the Windows SDK if you were interested. Presumably not all users would want the Windows SDK added to their download if it wasn't completely necessary, so they split it out. The only way you wouldn't be able to figure it out is if you didn't even bother to *read* the whole page (pure laziness) or didn't even know what Win32 was, in which case you had no business developing in it.

Firstly, myself setting up DMC back in the day probably isn't the best case study for "newbie" - I was pretty adept for a beginner. :D

Anyway, I had been writing a bit of Win32 code beforehand, and I did read through and follow the whole process for setting up the Windows SDK for VC++ 2005, without any problems - I just didn't find the outcome anywhere near as pleasing or straightforward as the main VS2005 suite. Hell, I didn't even stick with it for long before I lost confidence in the development platform and went back to DMC.
That's where I drew "grossly ill-equipped" from, and if you think you can coerce me into a different stance, then, whilst I'm pretty open to being persuaded myself, you're probably missing the point: it was an unnecessary and avoidable contrivance that a lot of people weren't happy about.

Hell, I don't understand it from a packaging standpoint - the free version is rationally your student/beginner line, and specifying a manual process for the thing a bulk of users want to do with your product has to be a support nightmare. It just would've made infinitely more sense to offer two packages - one with the Windows SDK, one without - that's if you can prove there's a reasonable market for VC++ that doesn't need Win32 (which I'm not really convinced of).

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
It's also possible to remove the harddrive and install it in another PC. Depending on your PC though this might be a permanent procedure, but I doubt that will stop someone (though it's probably easier for a thief to just cart off the whole thing).

Hmm, I've seen some sturdier, bolt-down cases, with locks, et al, but I think we're just going to start ascending through increasingly absurd hypotheticals from here. :D
I'm a slight bit more paranoid of someone destroying my data than I am of having any trade/personal secrets compromised, though. My personal details aren't really exciting, and I don't [think I] have anything to hide.

Quote:Original post by lightbringer
You should be on a Mac. Tiger/Leopard/(Snow Leopard most likely also) are very pretty. I'm very impressed with Macs (we have a bunch), despite the handicapped rodents. Hmm, I should see about getting development tools running on a Mac.

I've never really been a fan of the whole Mac aesthetic - it's pretty, but it also manages to grate with me in one of the worst ways. >_>
A few people have been trying to convince me to pick up a Mac, and - like with any other platform - when I have the necessary cash and time to blow I'll probably give it a shot. But I also tend to dislike Apple's business practices, I'm not a fan of vertically-integrated (as in, OS and hardware in one) systems, and I cringe whenever people launch into an anti-Microsoft ideological rant and posit Apple as an alternative. I guess the big thing, though, is that the grass doesn't really look any greener at all from this side of the fence.

Also, yes, what they do to those mice is animal cruelty!

Quote:Original post by Fenrisulvur
OpenJDK is the Ubuntu default, yes. I hear it works with LWJGL even, but it didn't like Eclipse the last time I tried that route, which admittedly was something like two years ago. It might be better now, but like you, I can't be bothered to check since I don't bend over backwards just to keep my environment pure open source.

We've gone quite a bit off topic, but the original question has been answered, in my opinion :D

The whole lot's probably better by now - I should probably get back into it.

And er, at least we're around if the OP drops in with more questions? :D

Well then we pretty much agree on the crux of the issue. :)

I think the only real disagreement boils down to whether or not it's acceptable to outright call beginners stupid.
On that note, er, I'm regretting tapping out the useless wall of text I produced on the subject. I'd been awake for ~24 hours, etc. >_>

So, redact my stance to this alone:

Quote:Please don't browbeat the newbies for not having absorbed as much a posteriori as you.

And I suppose it comes down to how much of an optimist you are. I'm surprising myself, at the moment. [lol]