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00Kevin

Deadliest Warrior

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Anyone here see the Deadliest Warrior TV Show? On that show they pit two of the most feared warriors civilization against each other. They do this by using a computer program to simulate the battle 1000 times. I was thinking that such a system could be used to create a strategy game. You could write the game so that each player must pick 5 weapons or defenses in turn. Then the battle would be resolved by the very program used in the TV series. At the end, a climatic battle scene could be computed and displayed. The only problem would be getting acurate data to base the weapons and armor on. It would be a shame to base them on popular myth. For example, many people I know think that the Katana is some sort of God like weapon. I know people who couldn't believe it when the Katana turned out to be completely impotent against the Viking chain mail. There was the other show where the Ninja's Iron weapon failed to penetrate the Spartan's bronze age breast plate. Likewise if you programed the game to consider the Vikings shield to be very weak. Then you would be missing the point of its construction. It was built to break apart, trap sharp weapons, and be held with a center grip. In addition, people would expect heavy armor to slow someone down, but when you watch videos of guys on YouTube doing acrobatics in it you are forced to think otherwise. After all the inertia of a guy in heavy armor would be far greater. In reality he would come at you far quicker and if he was skilled in transferring his momentum you are in serious trouble. Regardless of science, such a game would be very controversial since everyone would have their bias on one particular culture and many Hollywood myths would have to be dispelled.

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Never heard of this but it sounds cool as a TV show, where you sit back, observe and learn or are entertained by what you see. I've always wondered if the Viking raids against the churches of Europe would have gone so well if those churches were protected by Shaolin Monks. :)

As a strategy game, though, what would your major choices be? You'd probably not be doing historical scenarios if you wanted to pit Zulus against Dog Soldiers. So would this be a bit like Civilization?

Balance would also be an interesting issue. If I've got Samurai and you've got Janissaries I'm probably going to have a rough time of it. Even if simulation proves that's not the case, is it really interesting for you or me to be stuck with no-win units?

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Well.. you can watch them online at the spike TV website. There is a game programmer on the show that worked for the military. He is using some kind of battle simulation program.

Your battle between the Samurai and Janissaries might be very similar to the Pirate vs Knight battle on the show. Gun powder was the factor that allowed the pirate to win most of the time

The game could do historical battle simulations, but it would allow you to simulate more exotic battles that never occurred. The game could simulate individual warriors or battles between armies.

I suppose that each class of warrior would have its own selection of weapons. Choosing which weapons to use would be part of the challenge.

I would program the game so that even if you only win 50 out of 1000 simulations you at least get something for it. For example, if you selected a warrior with tech from 800 BC and put him against a warrior from with tech from 1500 AD you could be compensated a little more.

I guess this would be the type of game where a real simulation is actually fun. The use of real physics and scientific experiments would have to be part of game development.

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You would have to consider the skill of the warriors too though. A viking would be super brutal and would just charge right into battle with the intent of bashing in heads. A samurai would hang back and fight strategically and would most likely win every time due to wisdom, unless you mean more of an ashigaru (foot soldier) type of guy. A ninja would have a stealth advantage because honor would be less important than it would be to the samurai... So you'll definitely have to do your research on them.

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Quote:
Original post by 00Kevin
You could write the game so that each player must pick 5 weapons or defenses in turn. Then the battle would be resolved by the very program used in the TV series. At the end, a climatic battle scene could be computed and displayed.


This link may be of some interest to you: http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/deadliest-warrior-combat-simulator/

It seems that this "combat simulator" is in fact a computer game.

One thing that annoyed me about the show was the obsession with how lethal a single blow from each weapon would be - in reality, after receiving a good hit from almost any weapon in skilled hands it is likely that you are going to die, if not by the blow itself then due to being put off-balance or temporarily incapacitated. They seemed to completely miss the point of combat in favor of a gung-ho approach focused on "killing power" which always degenerated into a slanging match between the two teams representing each warrior.

Also, they repeatedly tested a weapon's ability to cut through armor, ignoring the fact that the armor left the neck, face and armpits exposed, for example. A skilled warrior facing an armored opponent would of course focus on these wide-open points rather than trying to puncture the armor itself. Many katana attacks, for example, aim to dismember or sever major arteries and so are targeted to the armpit, neck etc.

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Thanks for the link.

It is true that just about any weapon is lethal to an unarmored opponent.

I agree with you that the show was a disappointment in many ways. For example, the Viking armor shown didn't have any protection for the neck, but the vikings had a chainmail coif which would. In the end, the more area armor covers the greater the challenge for its wearers opponent.

With that said, I wouldn't discount killing power. In most mass battles the faster you kill your foe the better. In a real mass battle there isn't much room to jump around and take shots at openings in armor. Fewer openings means less to worry about when defending. This allows you to take more offensive chances. In a mass battle have to kill your foe as quickly as possible before another is upon you. If the only opening you have at the time is his chainmail covered chest then having a capable weapon that can stab through it might be your only chance.

All of these variables are usually considered in most game systems. Armor Class, Dexterity, Strength, etc. I guess you would have to create a system that fully detailed wounds, armor coverage, absorption, etc. Perhaps a look at some pen and paper game systems might help. D&D would be a bit too abstract for this purpose I think. In theory there should be a way to create an extremely detailed battle system.

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