Quote:Original post by swiftcoder
I would submit that there is plenty of low-key blackmail, backstabbing, gambling of resources/duties, etc. at the crew/non-commissioned level on a contemporary naval ship, and plenty of politicking at the officer level. And if you drop back to the Napoleonic wars, when crews and non-coms were mostly press-ganged, and kept in line through plentiful alcohol and brutal discipline, I imagine the system was not that far evolved from that of a privateer/pirate ship.

This is an interesting view. My worry is that we're pretty much conditioned in games to view things that aren't life threatening as trivial. If, for instance, you're threatened into keeping silent about a deckhand's illegal whiskey still, what needs to happen to make this a significant event?

I see your point and maybe can work with it, but what I'm saying is when the stakes are too low it's hard to take threat / challenge seriously.

I like the Napoleonic angle, though. If the navy was filled with washouts, criminals and potential deserters it'd make for a more interesting environment than snobby Starfleet cadets.

Quote:
However, one aspect you may want to be careful of is starting the player too low on the ladder. For instance, dropping back again to the age of sail, there was very little chance for a deckhand to rise to captain (even on a pirate vessel), because there were certain pre-requisites for command (among them both literacy and celestial navigation) which would generally be out of reach for a deckhand.

Good point. I've been mulling this one over and it seems that the size of the ship might make for an interesting challenge in terms of advancement, risk and the social dynamics you have to contend with. On a smaller ship, like a scout or "PT boat" equivalent there's more room for individual actions and heroism to matter. A smaller ship is also more vulnerable, on the other hand and may even be expected to be the guinea pig on missions that protect larger, more valuable craft.

So then maybe larger ships might be safer, offer less risk and more mission support, but also offer less options for advancement. It could even tip another way: Larger ships offer more social dynamics whereas smaller ships are more action/adventure and blood-n-guts gameplay.

Quote:Original post by Wavinator
This is an interesting view. My worry is that we're pretty much conditioned in games to view things that aren't life threatening as trivial. If, for instance, you're threatened into keeping silent about a deckhand's illegal whiskey still, what needs to happen to make this a significant event?

Permadeath. However, given that that would take us into a whole different discussion, I agree that this is too hard to pull off in a traditional game.

Quote:I like the Napoleonic angle, though. If the navy was filled with washouts, criminals and potential deserters it'd make for a more interesting environment than snobby Starfleet cadets.

I never bought that angle of StarTrek, to be honest. The 'grit' of other series (particularly recent ones, like the new BSG, or FireFly) seems to lend a lot more depth to the story than the whitewashed Starfleet academy...

Quote:So then maybe larger ships might be safer, offer less risk and more mission support, but also offer less options for advancement. It could even tip another way: Larger ships offer more social dynamics whereas smaller ships are more action/adventure and blood-n-guts gameplay.

That sounds like a very neat idea, but I am worried about the risk/reward balance. If you don't have something along the lines of permadeath (or at least permadeath of friend/ally charaters), I don't see that the social dynamics route would ever be balanced with the danger route.

Quote:Original post by swiftcoder

Quote:Original post by Wavinator
This is an interesting view. My worry is that we're pretty much conditioned in games to view things that aren't life threatening as trivial. If, for instance, you're threatened into keeping silent about a deckhand's illegal whiskey still, what needs to happen to make this a significant event?

Permadeath.

Am I right in assuming by permadeath you mean not so much that you can die but that whatever you choose is irrevocable? If, for instance, the whole illegal whiskey thing ends up with you being set up in a way that makes you look responsible for some mishap, and as a result your opportunities / compensation gets limited, then would you say that this should be something you can't just reload from?

(I laughed at this at first, thinking you did mean death, as in "steal your shipmate's lunch... permadeath!!!!" but that would be too silly.)

I was thinking of an idea of demerits and a concept of a permanent record, which could work either for bonded service (like the military) or more at-will commercial ventures. It could work like this: Getting aboard good ships and getting better pay and perks means you need a good word from the captain or senior staff. Ship voyages could be broken up into sessions where you do all the social gameplay and character management with an eye toward whenever the voyage ends (and maybe all the hazards / opportunities along the way). You would have to keep a certain rating to stay aboard ship, and the rating gets higher and higher the more elite the vessel. If you fail, you get transferred (if bonded) to a lesser vessel or dumped off at the ship's destination.

But I think there needs to be an imperative here not only in terms of what to achieve but what to avoid. Since I'm doing RPG/Life Sim stuff, something as simple as expenses or survival at your destination might be one deterrent. Getting set up and then dumped off on some remote mining asteroid that sees ships once a year could be a real negative the player might want to avoid, especially if there's some sort of decay associated (skills, resources, stats).

You could even spice this up a bit by folding in notions of factions, standards of living, disease and range of opportunities. If, for instance, you're a cyborg or genetic exotic heading toward a colony that has some supremacy stuff going on about "pure humanity" then you'll definitely not want to get dumped there.

Quote:
I never bought that angle of StarTrek, to be honest. The 'grit' of other series (particularly recent ones, like the new BSG, or FireFly) seems to lend a lot more depth to the story than the whitewashed Starfleet academy...

Yes and that grit probably creates more opportunity for gameplay than smooth running machines that never need human intervention. Even just having to deal with venting steam or get dirty repairing an engine part can lead to interesting gameplay.

Quote:
If you don't have something along the lines of permadeath (or at least permadeath of friend/ally charaters), I don't see that the social dynamics route would ever be balanced with the danger route.

What do you think about situations which crop up over time, say beyond the convenient span of save / reload? If something's been brewing for a few hours of real play time and presents a binary "send someone to their death" choice (assuming I'm using a system of event 'cards' where what's presented can't really be nerfed or massaged by the player) then reloading will be far less desirable, particularly if some rewards are randomized. Or no?