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[Universe impact]- involves three diferent races

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The story involves three different races that dominates playable galaxy and becomes very aggressive after the "universe impact" event. The event involves human experiments to make other two races less defensive. And the gameplay would vary mostly by the capabilities of direct control over units and their abilities. Races: Humans They are the usual thing as in most strategy games. Before the "impact" they were already controlling big part of the galaxy, so they were a thread of making other life extinct. Humans are mostly peaceful with each other, because of the strong leadership, but they still were too aggressive against other life forms. Cells (capitalized "Cells" means this race) The race individuals are mono-cells varying from the realistic size and human size. These cells have strong telekinetic relations, while being separated by huge distances. They have basic brains, but as the universe is full of them, the whole race is very smart (because every creature adds up to it's intelligence). Before the "impact" they were very defensive, but had disarming plans for humans if they were to expand further into space. Cells were sending viruses to humans that took over their minds to determine if they would ever stop increasing their power in galaxy. That made humans to cause the "impact", after they figured out Cells's plans for them. Bitrens For Bitrens word cell means a small society of Bitrens controlled by the main Core. Bitrens hadn't got many solar systems in control and they also were passive about the humans. Bitrens didn't attack each other before the "impact". The creatures, that are spawned from the core are mono-tasked, and could hardly think anything for themselves. Bitrens could also be spawned from spawners hat are controlled from the core. Bitrens weren't a thread for the Cells, as they were uninterested in exploring space. Some Bitrens could be more aggressive because of the experiments made by humans, but they still were too little in size to cause any problems. STORY: the universe impact After Cells declare war (as all of the universe Cells) and start manage the spreading of humans, the leaders of human civilization tries to destroy the telekinesis relations of cells. By doing so they not only makes Cells vulnerable (because after that every single Cell is opposing), but also makes every single Bio-form in the galaxy mutated. Humans and other multiple-celled creatures get sick and eventually die. Races after the impact Humans: Because the leaders were at the ground zero of the impact, they died. So the remaining/less hurt people are without any good control and fall apart. They split into factions and start battling against each other. Cells: They get the most damage as they have relied on their relations.They start attacking each other and turns into aggressive specie. Bitrens: As Bitrens are cell societies, they take the least damage. After they get split into phew factions, they shortly fights out their battles and starts conquering the remaining galaxy. Story after impact You try to bring back peace to the universe. And to do that you must somehow access the machine that made the impact and return cells their relations. By the way: Cells would be in total anarchy, because after impact, none of two Cells would be friendly. Gamepaly Humans: They have more or less standard control as in most RTS. Varying from the factions after the impact they can have more and cheaper units or less, but with more tactical capabilities. It would include stealth and long range attacks. Cells: The race intelligence concept- the more you have, the smarter you are. This would be represented in game as more complex units would be available by the amount of your units. Most units could duplicate by itself, so you wouldn't have a static base, unless some defense structures. They would be controlled in small packs (it's easy because they have strong thinking relations). Factions could include capabilities of: making a bigger unit out of few Cells; using viruses to take over life forms, including humans; being separate warriors and fighting in packs. Faction difference would be accessed after having a number of standard cells, that are common for every faction in the beginning. Bitrens: After being created you have little to none controlling capabilities. You can manually adjust what units patrols in your defense wall, if you want to have it. Bitrens would be very fast so the second you make one, half minute later it is mostly beginning doing it's task. You would need to send Bitrens in advance, so if you scout ahead first, you are most likely to succeed, because sending another attackers along the field would take some time. Most of the strategy would involve moving your spawners and making Bitrens accordingly to the enemies forces. Factions would consist: A faction that relies on remote spawners to shorten the time between order and it's accomplishment; a faction that can stack up Bitrens and then control then with a number of distinctive leaders; or a faction that's creatures have some complexer thinking capabilities. The core would be smart in all Bitren's cells. General story after the impact: The Bitrens starts conquering the most of the galaxy, while humans and Cells still fights themselves. [Edited by - xfront on December 12, 2009 5:49:05 AM]

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When I look at races in a strategy game, I look at their collective efforts and how each unit works toward a goal. You have the "what" and the "how", but what is the "why"? That would help us see how well your races develop in game. For example, I imagine the goal of all the races is pretty much the same in all strategy games: Try to claim/destroy stuff or stop another race from claiming/destroying stuff.

I would also clean up your description for the sake of presentation in this thread. If I may, let me try to parrot what you've just said in a summarized manner and see if I'm getting what you're saying.

Humans - Standard role. While the poor are industrious and great in number, they cannot oversee greater tasks intellectually. The higher you go in the chain of command, the more isolated humans are from the battlefield with greater influence per decision.

Celloids - Moderately complex multi-celled bioforms. These creatures focus on reinforcing their numbers quickly.

Bitrens - Simple organisms dedicated to linear tasks for maximum efficiency. Resource collection and use is consequently very efficient. Some groups may not need monitoring after certain conditions are met.

Looking at this cleaner overview, I'd say that Celloids and Bitrens need to be a little less docile. A very retro game I own called Dark Planet: Battle for Natrolis had a sickening race called the... was it Drell? Anyway, they were this insect race that focused heavily on rapid development and spawning. The troops were weak, but vast in number. These guys aren't unlike Starcraft's infamous Zerg race. What these guys have that your latter two races lack is manic aggression.

I feel that Celloids and Bitrens tend to mind their own business and work productively like ants, but do not really have the foundation to take on humans.
Maybe look into that?

Cheers!

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I wouldn't call ants docile. Go kick a rotting tree full of them and watch, better yet, step on their hills and feel how docile they are. Their efficiency at working is matched quite well by their collective efficiency at driving away threats.

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Thanks Zyrolasting. You got what I mean better than I did. Made some modifications to the thread.
I also think that the maniac large number race while being used, hadn't got any additional gameplay options for comfortable controlling of their numbers (having in mind Starcraft), just group assignments.

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I wouldn't call ants docile. Go kick a rotting tree full of them and watch, better yet, step on their hills and feel how docile they are. Their efficiency at working is matched quite well by their collective efficiency at driving away threats.


You're advocating I'd stick around and let them bite me. It's implied that any creature will fight for what they stand for, and I even said that explicitly. Maybe "docile" wasn't the right word to use, but they may as well be with the original information. What I'm saying is there isn't much ground on how the colony races defend themselves. To counter your point, go kick a rotting tree full of ants and walk away.

Quote:
Thanks Zyrolasting. You got what I mean better than I did. Made some modifications to the thread.
I also think that the maniac large number race while being used, hadn't got any additional gameplay options for comfortable controlling of their numbers (having in mind Starcraft), just group assignments.


xFront, you're looking better. I still got a few thoughts.

Quote:
Humans: they have a "right" to do that.
Cells: for multiplying reasons, environment is a offense for them.
Bitrens: other things are moving food, just need to make them gather-able.


Let's give the humans a motive, now. Sure, the motive of MOAR LAND PLZ is cliche'd across multiple RTS games, but it is appropriate. Although I'm sure you'd find it if you really look, I have yet to see a game where humans force species to extinction to fulfill some irrelevant biblical reasoning like "we felt like doing it, so we did." Your Cells are looking good, but looking at their previous overview, they feel more like tools than an intelligent race. There have been countless stories where humans have toyed with virii and biological junk to affect their lives. Bioshock, anyone? Bitrens also apply here.

One thing to remember is that humans are likely traveling through space here, and scientists are likely all over the place. Biological expiriments must be going on, and viruses may be invented! The problem you've hit is that you are trying to make races that take advantage of their simplicity, but you include a race (humans) that can manipulate them!

Your challenge now stands at keeping your races as simple bioforms, but also making them complex enough so that humans can't easily use them. A race in an RTS is normally very intelligent, but Cells and Bitrens are at worst an environmental hazard like a pit of lava or poison gas. Even with rapid development, it's still hard to picture them holding their own against humans.
Look back on the little back and forth I just had with JasRonq. He's right that species wouldn't just sit by while they are being trumped, but ants are simply not strong enough to handle us.

...A pride of mutant talking lions, on the other hand...

Anyway, I LOVE the idea of a virus-like race that can antagonize another race, but they would have to be complex. Note I used the term "virus-like"! I've had an interesting idea for a race I called the Nemst that can break down their structure to simpler forms to "sample" their environment and change their basic cellular structure. They would appear differently on regrowth depending on samples taken. Try something like that, and make sure the complex forms can fight with skill rivaling humans. I don't have the biology knowledge to back this with believable info, but it is a neat concept.

EDIT: On second thought, bitrens are too simple of a race to hold it's own
in an RTS at all. They can be awesome tools, but I think that's it.

[Edited by - zyrolasting on December 11, 2009 10:58:03 AM]

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About the ants, maybe a better example is amazonian ants. Everything is meaner there and the ants go on rampant marches across the jungle floor literally devouring alive anything in their path. Try walking away from that tree!
All I was trying to get at though is that the personality and motives of a race have little to do with how they work or structure their colonies. Sure those things give an idea of their methods and mind set, but being highly structured and methodical only means they are highly structured and methodical, not incapable of terrorizing masses, destroying whole races, or being docile.


About adaptation to the environment, you can always toss buzz words around a little and make stuff up. The more intelligent and well read on your subject the more they will notice so learning something about it would help. For instance a biological organism can sample the DNA of anything else that is biological and adapt to it or otherwise incorporate it into themselves. They can also breakdown local materials and use them as resources in their body. Consider this, a tree builds itself from the dirt it lives in. Different dirt means different minerals in its body. Taken to an extreme and combined with mutating DNA and you could collect new materials by eating them and making new bodies with new properties.

An example. There is a kind of material called piezo electric which convert deformations in their structure into electricity. That means if yo hit a chunk of this crystal with a hammer, it makes a shock. That sounds like a good melee defense if you take the effect to an extreme. (the effect also works in reverse. Maybe if you shock them hard enough, they deform their bodies until they break apart?)

So, you can sample the DNA of living things and adapt to that, or you can break down anything around you and use it as a resource in building your body.

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You're advocating I'd stick around and let them bite me. It's implied that any creature will fight for what they stand for, and I even said that explicitly. Maybe "docile" wasn't the right word to use, but they may as well be with the original information. What I'm saying is there isn't much ground on how the colony races defend themselves. To counter your point, go kick a rotting tree full of ants and walk away.

They aren't efficient in killing attackers, but they can drive them away very well. You kicking it and leaving counts in that. If you stay to try to kill all the ants, small they may be, you probably won't get out unscathed... Unless you had a flame throwing but that's like a 200 lb boxer fighting a baby, which is even more mismatched than a human vs a colony of ants.

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About the ants, maybe a better example is amazonian ants. Everything is meaner there and the ants go on rampant marches across the jungle floor literally devouring alive anything in their path. Try walking away from that tree!

Quote:
They aren't efficient in killing attackers, but they can drive them away very well. You kicking it and leaving counts in that. If you stay to try to kill all the ants, small they may be, you probably won't get out unscathed... Unless you had a flame throwing but that's like a 200 lb boxer fighting a baby, which is even more mismatched than a human vs a colony of ants.


You guys are misunderstanding something where I'm coming from. My entire argument is that no matter what motive the race has or what goal they try to achieve, it is indeed mismatched. Try thinking of this in an RTS rather than real life... That's where I'm coming from. Captain Dane is standing over the 2 foot tall hill of the Quazar Ants of Broken Dreams (or something, bear with me [disturbed]) He knows the ants in there are vicious, but incapable of keeping up with a human in a chase. Why NOT use a flamethrower, hose, etc? You simply have to have a mutant ant colony in order to keep up with a terrified man in full sprint.

Anyway the point is humans always tend to have a destructive goal in an RTS and have a lot of ideas to achieve it. Simpler organisms don't. I don't know why you guys keep making this assumption that humans would strike an ant colony and just stand there while they are bitten to death. In starcraft, no Zergling ever knocked down a Pylon and said "Oh I'm sorry, go ahead and put a laser in my face." There has to be a retaliation that rivals the attackers strength. I'm not trying to show my actual knowledge of ants in the real world! I'm just comparing complex to simple organisms in battle. I also could have used plankton for my example. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Closer to this topic with the Cells and Bitrens, they COULD infect the humans, but humans could wear a HAZMAT suit. Humans also could just poison the resource supply Bitrens work around. There's just too many things simpler organisms can;t do... That's one context to the word "simpler"!

As it currently stands, humans have every means to trump the other races introduced here unless the others were more complex and intelligent. I stomped an anthill, and I don't want to get bitten so I move away. I didn't move away so much because the ants drove me away. It was more because I knew I would be hurt if I stayed. Pothb, what you mentioned is like saying a hot stove is capable of warding off predators. Sure, but I'd say predators stay away from stuff like that due to THEIR better judgement. It sounds like you are crediting the simpler organisms here, which (to me) really only works once... When they actually retaliate successfully. Even if I didn't kill all ants in an anthill, I did do a lot of damage to all the ants care about. This is also a good objective in an RTS!

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Thanks for all of the replies, but you are missing my point.

Humans: working on their own (as for them selves, each person).
Cells: individual parts, but has strong relations.
Bitrern: almost NO INDIVIDUAL thought process, only linear tasks.

By saying different parts evolving, I meant different parts, they would still be rather intelligent:Bitrens are very dumb creatures, but they have a main CORE that knows everything, and has to send smaller creatures. Those task-assigned creatures aren't smart to do multiple tasks, but they are evolved to do an exact thing very well, they also could be as much dangerous as a tank (just a part of society controlled by main core).

I think these different races are mostly different by how much individual "minds" control them. Bitren core is evolved, so its smarter than thousands of human workers, but it can't directly control some of it's crated creatures. It will still have enough thoughts in it's mind to have reasons for attacking humans.

I think Bitrens gameplay would be like making a way-point on an enemy, making a fighter and then forgetting. Now I'm more concentrating on the control abilities, rather that abilities in growing and using environment. Some of your thought are still interesting. Bitrens could also be stacked up in a field, and then you send a leader, so all of your created attackers follow it towards enemy.

Also, Cells and Bitrens could be based on Silicon, normal nature uses Carbon. You might check out following links for more details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/siliconlife.html

I think I will need to sum it up somewhere (these design ideas).
Just a note: I think there is too many time spent discussing about why someone would attack something, I will still need that, but I think it's enough for now.

Thanks for yourinterest.

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Just a note: I think there is too many time spent discussing about why someone would attack something, I will still need that, but I think it's enough for now.


Sorry about that.

Quote:
By saying different parts evolving, I meant different parts, they would still be rather intelligent:Bitrens are very dumb creatures, but they have a main CORE that knows everything, and has to send smaller creatures. Those task-assigned creatures aren't smart to do multiple tasks, but they are evolved to do an exact thing very well, they also could be as much dangerous as a tank (just a part of society controlled by main core).
I s'pose it will work, but you may want to edit your OP since this "core" just suddenly came up.

Quote:
I think Bitrens gameplay would be like making a way-point on an enemy, making a fighter and then forgetting.


From the perspective of a gamer, this sounds really boring. For me, half the fun in an RTS is management and maintenance of assets. I can take some help if units spawn so quickly that I can't always remember to go back and select them, but I wouldn't want them to fight for me in the sense that I don't even need to issue an attack. To be fair, I do think an idea like yours was used elsewhere. I just personally never used the feature.

What you are suggesting would have an impact on gameplay that may need to be toyed with until perfection. It doesn't hurt to give Bitrens their own passive abilities, but try to push them a little closer to playing by the same rules as the other races.

Here's an example on why the automated attack to a way point may be a problem... Say you set a way point on some troops that are a little bit away from their home base and forget about the bitrens involved. the tactic works for a while as it thins defenses, but any good AI would note this and send stronger units to the same spot until you start automatically sending bitrens to their death with little benefit to you, when they could be used to collect resources or defend the Core. I don't want to have to have my automated bitrens effectively build up the opposition in this way and make a stronger wall for me to tear down later.

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