Getting a job without an education
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I'm 19 years old, and for a couple of years I've been coding using c++. I don't have an education, and I was wondering how hard it is to get a job without an education, and what I should do next.
I mostly do game programming (because it's more fun :) ), and I'm coding alone, so I have to do everything myself (Graphics, sound, networking, physics etc.), but I've come to believe that people specialize in a field, though at this point I don't really prefer one over the other.
So what I'm asking is: What should I do to get into the industry? And would I normally have to specialize in a specific field like networking or graphics?
Realistically, to get a interview for a popular job position, such as in the well-known game studios you will need a degree. It's a simple filtering criteria when they get 500+ applications. They make three piles: Those with X years industry experience, those with little to no experience, and those with no degree and no experience. Guess who they hire first...
I would say your best bet (beside getting a degree) is to make lots of very well-polished demos and use them to get a job at a *small* studio. Start at the bottom and work your way up. You will probably have to accept getting the lowest-paying position at first.
Alernatively, get a programmer job in another field and get real-world experience. That counts for a lot. But seriously, consider getting a degree.
Industry experience meaning having worked on a shipping game that can be bought in a shop.
I would say your best bet (beside getting a degree) is to make lots of very well-polished demos and use them to get a job at a *small* studio. Start at the bottom and work your way up. You will probably have to accept getting the lowest-paying position at first.
Alernatively, get a programmer job in another field and get real-world experience. That counts for a lot. But seriously, consider getting a degree.
Just intrested, how long did you spend teaching yourself C++ and how hard was it?
Im 19 and im intrested in learning it but im not in college or any education at the moment
Im 19 and im intrested in learning it but im not in college or any education at the moment
Impossible. Really, no employer is going to take you on if you don't have the necessary background, both in terms of theory (a degree) and practical application.
But as you're only 19, there's plenty of time to get both, especially the former, which I think gives a good foundation to any career in IT.
But as you're only 19, there's plenty of time to get both, especially the former, which I think gives a good foundation to any career in IT.
(Should be obvious, but this is opinions and not facts.)
In past years, it might not have been out of the question to get a job with an incomplete education. A number of people here have done it successfully. However, for the last year or two we've been in a rather serious recession. You may have heard about it. Unemployment's around ten percent, higher if you go by more comprehensive numbers. Almost weekly, there are reports of layoffs. Harmonix just let thirty-some people go. So considering how hard it is to even keep a job right now, let alone get one...
Frankly, the market is flush with job seeker who are better than you. They have years of schooling, years of experience, and are probably willing to take a pay cut in lieu of not having a job at all. Pretty much the best you can hope for right now is being hired by a studio because you're cheap enough compared to those guys to be worth it. And that means being really good for your age, probably with multiple demos and a wide range of skills to show.
Or you can probably manage to get a QA job.
In past years, it might not have been out of the question to get a job with an incomplete education. A number of people here have done it successfully. However, for the last year or two we've been in a rather serious recession. You may have heard about it. Unemployment's around ten percent, higher if you go by more comprehensive numbers. Almost weekly, there are reports of layoffs. Harmonix just let thirty-some people go. So considering how hard it is to even keep a job right now, let alone get one...
Frankly, the market is flush with job seeker who are better than you. They have years of schooling, years of experience, and are probably willing to take a pay cut in lieu of not having a job at all. Pretty much the best you can hope for right now is being hired by a studio because you're cheap enough compared to those guys to be worth it. And that means being really good for your age, probably with multiple demos and a wide range of skills to show.
Or you can probably manage to get a QA job.
Quote:Original post by Grantax
1. I was wondering how hard it is to get a job without an education,
2. and what I should do next.
3. would I normally have to specialize in a specific field like networking or graphics?
1. "Very." If you want a more precise statement of difficulty level, explain for me the difficulty measurement system ("difficulty level of 1 is exhaling and inhaling at 100 feet above sea level, and difficulty level of 10 is creating a universe" for example) and I'll do my best! (^_^)
2. You should get an education and build a portfolio.
3. Yes.
It used to be that it was reasonable to get into the industry with no education but as technology is moving forward, its getting harder and harder to get in that way.
I got in without a formal education so it's not impossible (:
However, my path was.... continue doing hobby game development and learn as much as possible while...
#1 - work retail for 4 years (it sucked)
#2 - work for my uncle doing web development for 4 years (making almost nothing)
#3 - getting a job at a "real" company doing web dev for 6 months
#4 - I got lucky and a game development company decided to take a chance on me. I spent 1.5 years there and shipped a title. The real company + my previous exp with my uncle was what got them to even look at the resume.
#5 - With a shipped title I moved to another game studio (higher quality) and have been there about a year. I figure 1 more year there and my resume will be solid and i'll be "in" for good.
However, if i knew then what i knew now, i would have gotten a degree :P
I would have either gotten a computer science degree from a regular university, or gone to a school like digipen and gotten a game development degree.
Digipen is the more fun of the 2 since you learn a TON directly related to game development, I'd recommend that to you hehe.
If you get a degree you are going to get a higher paid job sooner in game development (instead of having to do business dev first) and also, if things dont work out in game development for some reason or another, you have a degree to fall back onto to help you get a job in another field.
Other fields aren't as forgiving about not having a degree so getting one is definitely the safer bet in the long run :P
Plus many companies are always looking for fresh grads, while very few are looking for unproven hobbyists!
I got in without a formal education so it's not impossible (:
However, my path was.... continue doing hobby game development and learn as much as possible while...
#1 - work retail for 4 years (it sucked)
#2 - work for my uncle doing web development for 4 years (making almost nothing)
#3 - getting a job at a "real" company doing web dev for 6 months
#4 - I got lucky and a game development company decided to take a chance on me. I spent 1.5 years there and shipped a title. The real company + my previous exp with my uncle was what got them to even look at the resume.
#5 - With a shipped title I moved to another game studio (higher quality) and have been there about a year. I figure 1 more year there and my resume will be solid and i'll be "in" for good.
However, if i knew then what i knew now, i would have gotten a degree :P
I would have either gotten a computer science degree from a regular university, or gone to a school like digipen and gotten a game development degree.
Digipen is the more fun of the 2 since you learn a TON directly related to game development, I'd recommend that to you hehe.
If you get a degree you are going to get a higher paid job sooner in game development (instead of having to do business dev first) and also, if things dont work out in game development for some reason or another, you have a degree to fall back onto to help you get a job in another field.
Other fields aren't as forgiving about not having a degree so getting one is definitely the safer bet in the long run :P
Plus many companies are always looking for fresh grads, while very few are looking for unproven hobbyists!
I don't understand why people are so afraid of starting a degree. Once you put your feet inside the university and are able to say "working on a CS Degree", you already increased your probability of getting a job in the game industry by a 1000%.
Even if you have the dream of starting a new company yourself, getting inside the university is the way to go. It'll get you to know people, technologies, a sense of what can be done..
John Carmack dropped university, but to drop you must get into it. And he is a genius, which most of us are not.
Even if you have the dream of starting a new company yourself, getting inside the university is the way to go. It'll get you to know people, technologies, a sense of what can be done..
John Carmack dropped university, but to drop you must get into it. And he is a genius, which most of us are not.
Especially if you are only 19, don't know why you wouldn't go for an education. In this economic climate, as mentioned, it's hard enough for those of us with an education and 5+ years of experience to get a job! Better to spend a recession sheltered in a school than spending it unemployed.
But I'll otherwise echo the rest of the thread. It's getting more and more difficult to get into any industry without a college education. There are certainly exceptions, but those are typically of the "holy shit you are amazing" variety. We had a guy at my last job who was young and no college degree but he had independently developed a procedural city generator capable of creating something that looked not unlike NYC. The other things in his portfolio were similarly fantastic looking: things you'd expect people to have done as a master's thesis. So, yeah, it's possible to do, but in the same sense that it's possible to win the lottery [smile]
-me
But I'll otherwise echo the rest of the thread. It's getting more and more difficult to get into any industry without a college education. There are certainly exceptions, but those are typically of the "holy shit you are amazing" variety. We had a guy at my last job who was young and no college degree but he had independently developed a procedural city generator capable of creating something that looked not unlike NYC. The other things in his portfolio were similarly fantastic looking: things you'd expect people to have done as a master's thesis. So, yeah, it's possible to do, but in the same sense that it's possible to win the lottery [smile]
-me
The next couple years are the absolute perfect time to earn a degree. The recession has slashed jobs all across the board and continues to do so and things won't be picking up for at least a few years. During times like this it is always recommended to upgrade education as good jobs are few and you will have much better qualifications for when the economy starts to pick back up.
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