Can old people break into the game industry?
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Does anyone have stats on the average age of a game designer (programmer, comp. sci. person)? Ever heard of someone 50 starting out in the field? Or do you have to be "young"? Thanks.
Barring the usual reasons someone older might have trouble getting any job, I suspect that not too many skilled people that age are willing to settle for an entry level salary. But if you can do the job and you're okay with that level of pay, then why not?
Author
Quote:Original post by Promit
Barring the usual reasons someone older might have trouble getting any job, I suspect that not too many skilled people that age are willing to settle for an entry level salary. But if you can do the job and you're okay with that level of pay, then why not?
I suspect that by the time I hit 50 older folks will be more involved than they may be now. More that just project managers or senior programmers but people wanting second careers or just trying to get a new job (like they do in any other job type). thanks.
Due to the crunch time etc, it is a young man's field, but the conditions are getting better.
If you have programming experience from other fields i dont think the jump would be too hard to make, and you wouldn't have to start at entry level either (:
I know a couple of people that have done it that I work with.
One did sound and video codec programming so came in as a senior audio programmer.
Another guy did financial software and game in as a regular engineer (as opposed to an associate engineer).
I myself came from a hobbyist background but had 6 years of web dev on my resume so was hired as a regular engineer and given the title of "acting lead engineer" on my first project (which shipped fine)
So, I think it isnt an impossible dream, and like you say i think it will get better in the future as well as this industry matures.
There is a huge learning curve coming in from the outside though if it isnt something you also do for fun on your own. Heck even then going pro is a whole new level, so be prepared for some hard work (:
If you have programming experience from other fields i dont think the jump would be too hard to make, and you wouldn't have to start at entry level either (:
I know a couple of people that have done it that I work with.
One did sound and video codec programming so came in as a senior audio programmer.
Another guy did financial software and game in as a regular engineer (as opposed to an associate engineer).
I myself came from a hobbyist background but had 6 years of web dev on my resume so was hired as a regular engineer and given the title of "acting lead engineer" on my first project (which shipped fine)
So, I think it isnt an impossible dream, and like you say i think it will get better in the future as well as this industry matures.
There is a huge learning curve coming in from the outside though if it isnt something you also do for fun on your own. Heck even then going pro is a whole new level, so be prepared for some hard work (:
Ya, it may not appear logical to someone who hasn't experienced it, but crunch time is really heavy on your health.
Working 80 hours for one week isn't bad, but going nuts 120h/week for 2 months is something that is often considered harder on older people.
Working 80 hours for one week isn't bad, but going nuts 120h/week for 2 months is something that is often considered harder on older people.
Quote:Original post by OrymusWho does that?
Working 80 hours for one week isn't bad, but going nuts 120h/week for 2 months
I've been at bad companies that wanted 60/week (which I refused), but never 120.
If any company I worked at wanted that, I would quit on the spot.
Quote:Original post by Orymus
Ya, it may not appear logical to someone who hasn't experienced it, but crunch time is really heavy on your health.
Working 80 hours for one week isn't bad, but going nuts 120h/week for 2 months is something that is often considered harder on older people.
I hope this is a typo. I don't care how much you like games but there is no reason to give your every waking moment of it. Maybe the smaller company/paid indie lifestyle has spoiled me as I probably wouldn't be working for a place requiring 60 hours a week very long.
I can confirm those working conditions are still really prevelant.
On the first game i shipped, working at the first company i worked at, there was a period of time where we worked between 60-90 hour weeks for 9 months straight.
At the end of the project they gave us 2 days paid time off as a reward (woohoo...)
During the crunch time they always bought us dinner which was nice, and they told us it was "voluntary" but like yeah... it wasn't really haha.
I remember i was venting on the gameprogrammer.com mailing list about it and a factory worker in cuba responded saying not even THEY - in a communist country with no labor laws - would tolerate that :P
This company, who shall remain nameless (nobody would know it anyhow) had about 100 employees and was located in southern california.
I later went to work at midway and now wb games and the conditions are a lot better (although short periods of crunch still exist - such as 2 to 4 week long pushes working 60 hour works or a lil more).
I think where im at now is run a lot better and the crunch time is a lot more focused, and there for a defined reason as opposed to my first job which said "work harder with no defined goal!" which is absolutely retarded :P
If this scares you though, this field may not be for you cause crunch time is a reality. The good companies minimize crunch time but it's still there. (:
On the first game i shipped, working at the first company i worked at, there was a period of time where we worked between 60-90 hour weeks for 9 months straight.
At the end of the project they gave us 2 days paid time off as a reward (woohoo...)
During the crunch time they always bought us dinner which was nice, and they told us it was "voluntary" but like yeah... it wasn't really haha.
I remember i was venting on the gameprogrammer.com mailing list about it and a factory worker in cuba responded saying not even THEY - in a communist country with no labor laws - would tolerate that :P
This company, who shall remain nameless (nobody would know it anyhow) had about 100 employees and was located in southern california.
I later went to work at midway and now wb games and the conditions are a lot better (although short periods of crunch still exist - such as 2 to 4 week long pushes working 60 hour works or a lil more).
I think where im at now is run a lot better and the crunch time is a lot more focused, and there for a defined reason as opposed to my first job which said "work harder with no defined goal!" which is absolutely retarded :P
If this scares you though, this field may not be for you cause crunch time is a reality. The good companies minimize crunch time but it's still there. (:
If you're working at a place where 60 hour weeks are "normal" -- where I'd define normalality as a period lasting more than 4 weeks, it's probably a sign of serious mismanagement -- either someone doesn't really know how long things take, or someone deliberately promised an unreasonable schedule.
If 60+ hour weeks have become normal and compulsory (whether its explicitly stated or "understood"), its seriously time to consider a change of scenery -- by which I mean run, do not walk, to the nearest door; its time to GTFO.
Remember also that Games are an industry where the engineers are typically not being paid a rate that even approaches what similarly "experienced" (and possibly less-skilled) engineers are earning in other industries/specializations, and that game industry benefits (such as health, retirement, etc) are not nearly as good either. Those other engineers are only working 40 hours a week too, and the thought of having 60+ hour/week crunch for more than a couple weeks would have them rioting in the halls. At some point, the "fun" of being in the game industry just doesn't make up for the bullshit that some poorly-run studios expect.
On the flip side, working for a well-run studio making an exciting product is worth its weight in gold.
If 60+ hour weeks have become normal and compulsory (whether its explicitly stated or "understood"), its seriously time to consider a change of scenery -- by which I mean run, do not walk, to the nearest door; its time to GTFO.
Remember also that Games are an industry where the engineers are typically not being paid a rate that even approaches what similarly "experienced" (and possibly less-skilled) engineers are earning in other industries/specializations, and that game industry benefits (such as health, retirement, etc) are not nearly as good either. Those other engineers are only working 40 hours a week too, and the thought of having 60+ hour/week crunch for more than a couple weeks would have them rioting in the halls. At some point, the "fun" of being in the game industry just doesn't make up for the bullshit that some poorly-run studios expect.
On the flip side, working for a well-run studio making an exciting product is worth its weight in gold.
I'm surprised by the replies. I live in an area where 4 of the top game software developpers have studios, and this is a generalised kind of schedule to be honest.
Sorry to break your desilusions, but this is indeed often the case in the industry that a person is asked to spend several extra hours for long periods of time...
60h/week for 6 months is kinda "easy"
80h/week for 4 months is kinda "hard"
But it may exceed that depending on project status.
Most people will refer to it as the Crunch time so to speak. While a crunch time is, in theory, short on span, it may last for weeks or months.
The main part of it is the submission crunch time or the "final crunch". Until the game is ready to ship, people will stay day and night.
It is not uncommon to have people bring in sleeping bags and sleep under their desks (see Assassin's Creed II for a very recent example of that).
My advice, if you're not in the business and are thinking about getting in the business, get ready for that, as it is not only required, but possibly one of the best vectors to get "something more" eventually.
Of course, there may be exceptions, such as smaller business, but places like EA, THQ, Ubisoft and the likes really depend on overtime. Overtime itself is not considered "extra". It is part of the requirements. And to be bluntly honest, it was the third question I was asked in my interview "how do you feel about overtime" and God am I glad I said something positive... Otherwise, I would've failed ;)
Sorry to break your desilusions, but this is indeed often the case in the industry that a person is asked to spend several extra hours for long periods of time...
60h/week for 6 months is kinda "easy"
80h/week for 4 months is kinda "hard"
But it may exceed that depending on project status.
Most people will refer to it as the Crunch time so to speak. While a crunch time is, in theory, short on span, it may last for weeks or months.
The main part of it is the submission crunch time or the "final crunch". Until the game is ready to ship, people will stay day and night.
It is not uncommon to have people bring in sleeping bags and sleep under their desks (see Assassin's Creed II for a very recent example of that).
My advice, if you're not in the business and are thinking about getting in the business, get ready for that, as it is not only required, but possibly one of the best vectors to get "something more" eventually.
Of course, there may be exceptions, such as smaller business, but places like EA, THQ, Ubisoft and the likes really depend on overtime. Overtime itself is not considered "extra". It is part of the requirements. And to be bluntly honest, it was the third question I was asked in my interview "how do you feel about overtime" and God am I glad I said something positive... Otherwise, I would've failed ;)
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