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Ferinorius

New Twist to magic??

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Ferinorius    125
This is my first post in a long long time. Things have changed I must say, but now I am back on the game track.....let''s go! I am working on an RPG (still) and have come across a new idea. I am thinking that the magic system needs to be complex. Something that is not only worth your while to build up but also fun, and rewarding is top of the list here. I have this concept, and lemmie know what you think: Magic has levels just like the player. Each time the magic is used in battle, it gets a certain amount of experience depending on the monster. Magic has the capability to level up in the heat of battle, increasing its power and casting cost. Magic can level up to level 99 or 100. As each level increase occurs, the magic''s casting cost is increased a small bit, and the strength of the spell is increased. THe player can choose then to level up his/her favorite spells, or level them all up, much like characters. As a spell levels up, its attack gets more violent looking, until it is maxed out and it looks like a humongous extravaganza. If the player levels all the spells up to their max, a final, ultimate spell is recieved. THe motive is there, level up to get stronger. In essence, the magic spells are like characters of their own. And actually, this is easier to implement than it seems. Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
first of all this really stood out:

"I am working on an RPG (still) and have come across a new idea. I am thinking that the magic system needs to be complex"

Two big mistakes. The first is that something needs to be complex. Fun games aren''t complex. Complexity can give a cheap high but isn''t a good replacement for simple rules that create complex gameplay. The second is that you are thinking of adding features to a project that you probably aren''t anywhere near finishing. If you want to finish you''re going to have to keep the feature list reasonable.

Ok onto the idea: sorry I don''t like it. It will make players use the same few spells again and again. Why even put all the spells in the game if the players are only each going to use a few?

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Ferinorius    125
true true true, but let''s not despise someone who just decided to throw an idea on the drawing board. No way is this a statment saying "This is how magic should be, and It will be implemented in my game!!" it is just a simple meandering through some idea valley that i came across.

complex is the wrong word for it i guess. i want something that will be worth it to work on, worth fighting battles for, worth leveling up for. that is all.

Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

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TookH    122
The SNES game Secret of Mana did what you describe, with the exception of increased cost. It worked nicely, although you would generally just cast spells to level up to max as soon as you could.

Why increase the cost? Won''t that just negate the positive effects of additional damage, making level ups pointless?

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Ferinorius    125
all spells cost more as they get stronger. An increase in cost every level up here and there wont hurt. It can be used to deter a player to using one spell all the time and to level up the others.

I''m glad i came here, this is always a place to get your bugs worked out!!

Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

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BobyDimitrov    122
Ferinorius, almost every fantasy RPG I played has a system of that sort. Hm, just to name one, which is sitting on my desk right now: Revenant. Leveling in magic skill, more skill=cheaper (or stronger) spells.

It''s a nice thing to have in a RPG, but I wouldn''t call it complex or original...

Read through that post:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=53141
You will find some interesting stuff in there on magic!

My 2gp...

Boby Dimitrov
boby@shararagames.com
Sharara Games Team

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TechnoHydra    122
A variation of this is used a lot nowadays but it hasnt been developed to it''s full potential, i feel. Secret Of Evermore for the SNES had an alchemy system that focused some on leveling potions through use. It was a great way to play I thought. The more I used one recipe the better it would get. I think that an increase of cost is something that is definitly a good a option. Increased cost makes sense since the better you get the MORE energy/mana/whatever you can control and focus.

If you want to have a lot of different spells in the game you need to have distinctions between them. Noticible ones. I dont necesarily mean just damage but side affects(to caster and casted upon), and appearence. I dont care what anybody says if a spell looks AWESOME people WILL use use it just to see it. And dont make them all available to everyone.

Have circles of study that each contain many spells. Each circle specializes in on area but will have spells for every ocasion even if they arent the strongest in that area. This way you''ll get lots of people focused in lots of different circles and those people in the circles will focus on different spells. Asheron''s Call had the interesting idea of the more people using one spell the weaker it was. Now people are for sure going to be trying to use different stuff.(Note: I think that was Asheron''s Call, never got to beta test because comp wasn''t up to par.)

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Ferinorius    125
I like that because it enables a player to work on the magic the way they want it to. Magic wont be available to all of course, only to those who can use it. If one person wants to work on darker more opposing forces, they can, or they can develop kinder, healing spells.

It all depends on the player and they way they play. Im trying to stess the aspect that they wont get the higher power spells unless they work to level up the spells they have.



Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

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Chronoslade    122
I like the idea, but it still needs some work. How about being able to select the level of the spell you cast. I mean you dont want to cast a level 99 Magic Missle Death Blast at a level 4 Imp. Then the spell is mostly wasted.

"There is humor in everything depending on which prespective you look from."

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Ferinorius    125
cool.

that is a lot harder though. i mean, its a lot of work to select the level before you use it. Two solutions:

have an action gamish "power meter" that you use power up your magic attacks.

or the magic can have three or so stages of level up as it levels up. first stage is somewhere in the 30''s or 40s. second level is the 60s or 70s, and highest is anywhere above that up to level 99.

obviously i dont like the power meter idea.
other ideas?


Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

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Guest Anonymous Poster   
Guest Anonymous Poster
You coudl balance the cost by adding another variable, like a player skill in overall magic, or a specific branch of magic. Then base the mechanics of paying for the cost on this additional skill.

So a player might develop fire magic in general (lvl 50), but fireball in specific (lvl 99). The higher fire magic lets the player pay the mana cost of more expensive fire spells, but not more expensive ice spells. And it requires an investment in the fire magic skill, so there is opportunity cost.

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Ferinorius    125
i had an idea something along those lines.

have a general section of spells, and then more specific categories of that "element". Fire has fireball, firestrike, flamethrow....lighting has bolt, stun, electrify....and so on each one costing more to cast, and stronger. so instead, as each category of spell levels up, a new spell is introduced.....

this remains with my idea of having an incentive to fight each battle, and it gives the player the choice to use strong spells against strong enemies, and a spell strong enough to hurt a weaker monster without costing an arm and a leg in MP or mana or what have you.

Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

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ztn    133
I kinda like this idea. Being able to grow a spell over time sounds cool.


""
How about being able to select the level of the spell you cast. I mean you dont want to cast a level 99 Magic Missle Death Blast at a level 4 Imp. Then the spell is mostly wasted.
""

As for this, I would lean away from asking the player for more info when they just want to KILL. Instead, have the grandios'' special effects build slowly, while damaging the ''Imp''. So that the spell dosen''t get into full throttle, and the effects don''t reach thier full hype, if the creature dies early on.

Of course, you will need your combat engine smart enough to deal with this...

z

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TookH    122
quote:
Original post by Ferinorius
cool.

that is a lot harder though. i mean, its a lot of work to select the level before you use it. Two solutions:

have an action gamish "power meter" that you use power up your magic attacks.

...

obviously i dont like the power meter idea.


I'm a fan of action RPGs, so that sounds like fun to me. It would make fireballs kind of like the bazooka in Worms; you aim, hold down the spacebar for second, and then BLAM, that enemy knight is BBQ.

Edited by - TookH on August 1, 2001 7:18:16 PM

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Ferinorius    125
yeah, now that is a better sounding idea than some old power meter thing:

quote:
TookH;

It would make fireballs kind of like the bazooka in Worms; you aim, hold down the spacebar for second, and then BLAM, that enemy knight is BBQ.




and the idea of the building up, it was unclear at first what you meant, but i get it now. That is cool, as you are blowing the crap outta the guy with your fire spell, it it can rack up the damage, and when you are at its hit points, it can quit. i bet that would look kind of cool too....

a fire ball keeps bubbling overtop your enemy as you watch the damage keep tallying up. either you kill the guy or it keeps going to its max attack power. That has cool potential too!





Neo-Toshi - The City That Never Sleeps

Edited by - Ferinorius on August 1, 2001 9:05:42 PM

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