Skill is the new grinding.....

Game Design and Theory Game Design

Started by Alpha_ProgDes February 13, 2010 07:56 AM

15 comments, last by Pete Michaud 14 years, 2 months ago

6,963

Author

February 13, 2010 07:56 AM

I'm pretty sure there some games that implement this, but I haven't seen a lot of them. So I'll throw this out there. Instead of killing 1000 orcs for 4-6 hours, just to level up to fight in the Ice Cave, why not:

[A] kill 100 orcs with headshots,
decapitate another 100, and
[C] hit 3 out of 5 orc pressure points with melee attacks.

For each "skill" you master you get a "reward":

[A] medal,
orc head to drape on armor,
[C] green aura

and a new title: start as Warrior,

then accomplish [A] and become Orc Hunter,
then accomplish and become Orc Kamikaze Destroyer,
and then accomplish [C] and become Orc Ninjitsu Annhilator

It seems more fun that way and also more rewarding.

Beginner in Game Development? Read here. And read here.

doomhascome

142

February 13, 2010 09:30 AM

Ok, so what you're proposing (if I understand this correctly), you have quests that require skill, and allow you to level up much faster. The quest based system is widely used (WoW being the most well known MMO). The skill has a few problems. Most systems that require "skill" end up allowing players who use bots and macros to easily win in every encounter, because they always complete the skill requirement. Additional, how are you using skill? Timing? FPS skills? Typing speed? There are a lot of ways you can use that term.

This idea has potential, but needs refinement.

Platinum_Dragon

162

February 13, 2010 11:02 AM

If you want to make a skill "grinding" system, the first thing that is necessary is the ability to negate botting. To stop the bots from functioning, you have to add a degree of random elements to the game system. These random elements are plausible for humans to recognize after they play the game long enough, but they should be random enough so that bot developers will have difficulty.

They system is more fun and more rewarding, I agree. But the system can only be fun or rewarding if players do not see the skill levels of botters because they will envy these bots but cannot reach the same level as botters. People are usually envious of those better than them.

I use QueryPerformanceFrequency(), and the result averages to 8 nanoseconds or about 13 cpu cycles (1.66GHz CPU). Is that reasonable?
I though that the assembly equivalent to accessing unaligned data would be something similar to this order:

move
mask
shift
move
mask
shift
or

So it seems reasonable to say that it takes 14 cycles for unaligned data since we'll have to do the series of instructions once to access and once to assign?

Orymus

156

February 13, 2010 11:42 AM

Knight of Xanthem used a parallel system. Everytime you fought a monster, you gained the upper hand exp over that specific monster which in turn made them that much easier.

The fact you were there before they invented the wheel doesn't make you any better than the wheel nor does it entitle you to claim property over the wheel. Being there at the right time just isn't enough, you need to take part into it.

I have a blog!

Alpha_ProgDes

6,963

Author

February 13, 2010 12:07 PM

I keep forgetting most people here are PC gamers....

Beginner in Game Development? Read here. And read here.

JasRonq

156

February 13, 2010 12:15 PM

Thats ok, you will just need to learn to say non-MMO at the start of every topic you start. Its tiring but necessary for avoiding entirely unhelpful developments in the thread.

Your idea by the way sounds a bit like something I suggested in another thread. Basically have skill leveling come from completing achievements which are unique challenges with differing difficulty and experience rewards.

mrbastard

1,577

February 13, 2010 12:22 PM

Sounds like a nice refinement of Team Fortress 2's achievement / unlock system. Each class has around 30 achievements mostly based on skilled use of the class. For each 10 you achieve, you get a milestone which unlocks a new weapon.

(though there are random item drops and a craft system too)

example: Soldier Class Achievements and Unlocks

[size="1"]

Alpha_ProgDes

6,963

Author

February 13, 2010 12:23 PM

Quote:Original post by JasRonq
Thats ok, you will just need to learn to say non-MMO at the start of every topic you start. Its tiring but necessary for avoiding entirely unhelpful developments in the thread.

Your idea by the way sounds a bit like something I suggested in another thread. Basically have skill leveling come from completing achievements which are unique challenges with differing difficulty and experience rewards.

Actually that's along the lines of what I was thinking. Not so much a quest (though it could be one), but, as you said, achievements or even general playing mechanics.

For instance, everytime you beat an enemy:

without using potions, you get 1.5x bonus experience.
No potions and no damage, 2.0x bonus experience.
No potions, no damage, and one player at 100% health, 2.5x bonus experience.
No potions, no damage, and two players at 100% health, 2.75x bonus experience.
No potions, no damage, and three players (max) at 100% health, 3.25x bonus experience.

Beginner in Game Development? Read here. And read here.

Platinum_Dragon

162

February 13, 2010 03:28 PM

Quote:skill leveling come from completing achievements which are unique challenges with differing difficulty and experience rewards.

This line is a simple abstract line that will take lots of work because the application of this simple statement is the bulk of a game. This design will is good, but to implement it at a plausible rate is difficult. That's why creating an RPG is better than an MMORPG for a simple statement but complex application.

Alpha_ProgDes, I will suggest that since we have a party of 3, that the "special" experience should be unique to the individual character while the general experience is together for the party.

Special experience is the accomplishments that the characters can possibly do.
General experience is the basic experience the characters get when they kill a monster.

Why give the special experience uniquely to the characters? This is so the player can create unique party roles for the characters.

move
mask
shift
move
mask
shift
or

So it seems reasonable to say that it takes 14 cycles for unaligned data since we'll have to do the series of instructions once to access and once to assign?

Orymus

156

February 13, 2010 03:40 PM

Quote:Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
I'm pretty sure there some games that implement this, but I haven't seen a lot of them. So I'll throw this out there.

Instead of killing 1000 orcs for 4-6 hours, just to level up to fight in the Ice Cave, why not:
[A] kill 100 orcs with headshots,
decapitate another 100, and
[C] hit 3 out of 5 orc pressure points with melee attacks.
For each "skill" you master you get a "reward":
[A] medal,
orc head to drape on armor,
[C] green aura
and a new title: start as Warrior,
then accomplish [A] and become Orc Hunter,
then accomplish and become Orc Kamikaze Destroyer,
and then accomplish [C] and become Orc Ninjitsu Annhilator

It seems more fun that way and also more rewarding.

IT is indeed widespread, but giving more focus to this may be interesting. Achievement-related games score well with casual gamers. However, I really don't know how hardcore gamers feel about this. It is kind of limitating for people who want to go beyond that. Just my 2 cents.

I've seen progressive games where achievements increased with a variable number.
For example, 100 headshots would be followed by one with 1000 headshots, and so on. Adding difficulty levels could work too. Eyeshots :P

Skill is the new grinding.....

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