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Thoover

Just need information and advice.

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Thoover    134
Okay, me and some friends are getting together to (try) to make a game. I don't think it will work with what I know, that's why I turned here to try to get some advice from people with more knowledge than me. Before I actually ask my question, let me tell you what I personally know when it comes to programming. So far the only language (other than for web pages) that I have worked with in the last four years has been JAVA, I have learned a lot in this language from simple 2D graphics and physics to TCP/IP and MySQL, I have used C in the past with very simple graphics, but my knowledge of C graphics only work on 16-BIT systems, and unfortunately 16-BIT no longer exists with 64-BIT OSes. Now for the type of game we are building, no it is NOT a mmo, I know how that gets flamed, it will be a third-person 3D shooter / RPG. Now for the languages I would like to learn more about to program this game, one of the following C, C++, or C#. I would like to know what would be easier to use in the long run or short run, and also any good FREE online tutorials for the basics all the way up to OPENGL / DIRECT X graphics. Also if anyone knows of any decent FREE compilers and/or linkers that would work close to as well as Microsoft Visual Studios. I am not a beginner, I also learn fast, I just haven't looked too far into these languages lately until now. Thanks in advance, Brian T Hoover a.k.a. BASIC_Freak P.S. My friends also thank you.

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Andy474    694
Hey there, One thing you might like to look into if you want to learn more C# is XNA.

Microsoft XNA

I Have used XNA to build many different games. It is far simpler than DirectX.
I have created game from simple 2D Defence games to 3D Maze's with a Rubber Duck :P

C# it's self is a lot like JAVA and C++(ish) I Used to write in Direct X and C++ and didn't have to use any tutorials to pick up C#.
XNA is a very powerful framework which can create brilliant games, and includes the tools to create your own pixel and vertex shaders in HLSL. There is only only 1 limitation (your artistic skills). It doesn't require the hassle of setting up a window, setting up the device, you can launch straight into developing your game which for your first group project might be a good idea.

Reimers XNA this is the best tutorial I have found for XNA I still use it if I am unsure on anything.

The Best compiler I have used has to be Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 and some sort of Source control between your computers or somthing.

Have a look at some of the games created on the Creators club web page. and look at Riemers tutorials and make your own judgement :)

Any other questions feel free to ask :) ~Andy^

~Andy^

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Thoover    134
Quote:
Original post by Andy474
Hey there, One thing you might like to look into if you want to learn more C# is XNA.

Microsoft XNA

I Have used XNA to build many different games. It is far simpler than DirectX.
I have created game from simple 2D Defense games to 3D Maze's with a Rubber Duck :P

C# it's self is a lot like JAVA and C++(ish) I Used to write in Direct X and C++ and didn't have to use any tutorials to pick up C#.
XNA is a very powerful framework which can create brilliant games, and includes the tools to create your own pixel and vertex shaders in HLSL. There is only only 1 limitation (your artistic skills). It doesn't require the hassle of setting up a window, setting up the device, you can launch straight into developing your game which for your first group project might be a good idea.

Reimers XNA this is the best tutorial I have found for XNA I still use it if I am unsure on anything.

The Best compiler I have used has to be Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 and some sort of Source control between your computers or somthing.

Have a look at some of the games created on the Creators club web page. and look at Riemers tutorials and make your own judgment :)

Any other questions feel free to ask :) ~Andy^

~Andy^


Thanks for the advice and the link will defiantly look into it, if it is anything like java I will have no problems with C#.

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Thoover    134
XNA looks like simple graphics to me, but for our first project together it would probably be best to start small like that, currently I'm in a bind with this all, my internet is being cut off tomorrow morning until our cable co. can fix the lines..., so I am trying to download everything I can now including XNA, visual studio, DX SDK, and OpenGL libraries so we can work on it, and just tether iPhone internet for the tutorials and information on it all - and at the same time backing up almost a TB of information so I can uninstall 7RC and install a full version of 7. We hope to have a simple form of the game finished by New Years, if we do I will defiantly post a link to get criticism from everyone here on what else should be done. Too much to do so little time.

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Fenrisulvur    186
Quote:
Original post by Thoover
So far the only language (other than for web pages) that I have worked with in the last four years has been JAVA ...

Now for the languages I would like to learn more about to program this game, one of the following C, C++, or C#.

Hmm, Java would be suitable.

Generally, the only reason you'd bother with C or C++ these days is if you need to leverage code that's also written in C or C++, or absolutely need a native runtime - which largely explains why they're still popular at all. They tend to be a bit faster than Java, but generally the productivity gains Java offers are considered well worth the inconsequential performance loss.

C# is a good idea, though. C# is heavily inspired by Java - in fact you should have no problem picking it up. Almost identical semantics, comparable standard library, etc. Though, as it was conceived 5 or so years after Java, C# has been able to introduce several impressive features which Java has struggled to keep up with.
I'd say that XNA is probably the best reason to opt for C#, though.

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Krohm    5031
I agree with Fenrisulvur and would like to point out that if you already have to learn a 3d api, design a structure which does not cause you to go mad and others, then it's probably better to stick with Java to start easier. Sure, C# is like Java, but not quite the same thing. The lib is similar, but not quite the same.
Quote:
Original post by Thoover
Okay, me and some friends are getting together to (try) to make a game
What about your friends anyway? If there's at least another Java, that's a thing. If there's a C# it's another. If they are going to be all at artwork... get some coffee.

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JoeCooper    350
I'm just getting into game programming from years of Java.

This might be of interest to you.

C++ would be important if you're concerned with portability. All relevant platforms support it. Java and XNA each limit you to two relevant platforms (PC+Mac and PC+360, respectively).

That is of course probably fine, and if it is indeed fine, C# has strong benefits over C++ and Java has the key advantage of you already knowing it.

C# is like Java with hindsight. If you're really dieing for a change, you might enjoy C++ instead. I'm doing my 3rd game project in C++ after a few years of just Java and its tons of fun.

My choice of compiler is GCC for Windows, mainly because I've used Linux most of my life and I'm comfortible with it.

You might consider the Microsoft Platform SDK if you're going that route. It integrates into Visual C++ "out of the box".

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Antheus    2409
Quote:
Original post by Thoover

it will be a third-person 3D shooter / RPG.


Why not look at Unreal engine then? It's free, uses scripting, and does all the heavy lifting. Just focus on the content.

Quote:
Now for the languages I would like to learn more about to program this game

There is nothing useful that could be learned by starting from scratch, no more than try to approach programming business applications via hand-crafted assembly would be.

All the work that goes into engines these days is just labor intensive, there are just so many quirks that need to be taken care of, so much hardware that needs to be tested, so many drivers, etc... None of it is hard per se, it just consumes a lot of time (man decades).

And instead of learning the useful stuff, starting from ground up means all time will be spent fixing the plumbing.

Quote:
Also if anyone knows of any decent FREE compilers and/or linkers that would work close to as well as Microsoft Visual Studios

Visual Studio?

Quote:
me and some friends are getting together to (try) to make a game

Ah, so it is not about writing an engine, implementing IK, implementing resource loader, implementing ...

What you really want is an engine and not even touch anything related to writing low level code. Preferably something with more than just rudimentary framework, but something with decent pipeline in place already.

If UDK is too fancy, look into Unity3D. And there are likely a few others as well.

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