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VC++ 2005 vs 2008 / 2010

General and Gameplay Programming Programming

Started by Cacks February 16, 2010 11:06 AM

33 comments, last by Ravuya 14 years, 2 months ago

2,410

February 16, 2010 03:18 PM

Quote:Original post by Cacks
I don't think I refered to Visual Studio as a language, its obvious that its not. I know that it contains several languages, I used to work for Micosoft. How would you like me to describe VC++. Would Win32 C++ suffice?

If you want to write C++ code, you write C++.
If you want an IDE, you choose Eclipse CDT (there actually is Eclipse for C and C++), VS, Code:Blocks, Notepad++, emacs, ....

C++ is language standardized by committee. Different compilers offer different degrees of standard compliance, something which must be taken into account depending on platform.
Both C++ compilers inclided by GCC4 and MVS2005 and later versions can be considered to offer adequate adherence to standard to be considered standard C++.
Microsoft offers glue extensions for C++ and .Net interoperability commonly referred to as Managed C++, but that is Microsoft specific language and should is not C++ as such.
Microsoft's compiler, just like GCC, or any other compiler for that matter, comes with proprietary standard library and vendor-specific compiler extensions.

Win32 refers to specific subset of Windows Platform API. There is no Win32 C++ and Win32 is used to signify the difference that occurred during transition from Win16 around the Windows 3.0 era.

Nitage

1,107

February 16, 2010 03:19 PM

Refactor! is nice - the one issue I've found was that it hangs the IDE when I load a paticular project that includes a JSON parser written using Boost Spirit. But I find the addon useful enough to justify splitting the JSON parser into a seperate static library project. It's irritating that I have to disable addons before loading that project but, as it's written against a very small and static spec, it very rarely changes.

I haven't tried VAX with 2008 yet.

cache_hit

614

February 16, 2010 03:21 PM

Quote:Original post by Cacks

Can you name me big commercial Windows games which don't use VC++ as their main language? No Flash games.

Of course nobody can name commercial games that don't use VC++. Nobody can name commercial games that do use VC++ either, unless they actually worked on that game. Companies don't go around publicizing which compilers they use for their games.

I would be highly surprised if a number of games haven't used Intel C++ for their games, since it is well-known to produce the most highly optimized code of any other compiler.

Antheus

2,410

February 16, 2010 03:29 PM

Quote:Original post by cache_hit

I think maybe he's just failing to distinguish between the core compiler and everything else.

Are there any C++ compilers which have core and something else. They usually come as compiler and linker pairs, with pre-processor being part of compiler.

Microsoft's versions are cl.exe and link.exe. Everything else is either IDE, .Net, platform libraries and runtimes, various tools, documentation, ....

Buckeye

10,754

February 16, 2010 03:30 PM

For what it's worth, I just moved from 2005 to 2008. The Intellisense is (my opinion, not an absolute) greatly improved, particularly with respect to structures, classes, arrays, etc. (On my own machine) it updates quickly, recognizing new classes, structures, etc., within a second or so of adding a new "#include" to a file.

During debugging, it's even more valuable and includes the ability to inspect values in individual elements of an array of classes containing vectors... with just a mouseover of the variable.

That alone made it worth while for my own particular style and set of individual-and-perhaps-not-universal preferences.

(Hope I provided enough qualifications)

Please don't PM me with questions. Post them in the forums for everyone's benefit, and I can embarrass myself publicly.

You don't forget how to play when you grow old; you grow old when you forget how to play.

cache_hit

614

February 16, 2010 03:40 PM

Quote:Original post by Buckeye
For what it's worth, I just moved from 2005 to 2008. The Intellisense is (my opinion, not an absolute) greatly improved, particularly with respect to structures, classes, arrays, etc. (On my own machine) it updates quickly, recognizing new classes, structures, etc., within a second or so of adding a new "#include" to a file.

During debugging, it's even more valuable and includes the ability to inspect values in individual elements of an array of classes containing vectors... with just a mouseover of the variable.

That alone made it worth while for my own particular style and set of individual-and-perhaps-not-universal preferences.

(Hope I provided enough qualifications)

2k10 is even better. I'm really amazed every time I include boost header files and parameter lists, member lists, etc, just work, despite the multitude of complex preprocessor defines, template specializations, etc being invoked.

Codeka

1,239

February 16, 2010 04:09 PM

Quote:Original post by Cacks
I worked with a &#106avascript programmer who argued with me that &#106avascript is the most import language at the minute. What was he talking about! Its a complete crap heap for many reasons.</td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>Not that this is in any way related to the discussion, but &#106avascript the language is actually pretty neat (it's the DOM and interaction with the browser that typically sucks). <a href="http://jquery.com/">jQuery</a> totally blew my mind :) Oh, and +1 for VS2010. Even Beta 2 which was a bit of a memory hog was awesome, the RC is even better! In a quick test, it seems to be using less memory than VS2008 (but that might just be because I've got more addins installed in VS2008)

War Worlds • Journal

Cacks

184

Author

February 16, 2010 04:09 PM

Hi jpetrie,

Quote:there are a number of factors involved

I’m not disputing that C++ has powerful features. I’m saying that writing C++ with VC++ 2005 is slow. The tools a user uses is important. If those tools don’t allow a user to write code quickly then they aren’t going to be productive.

Quote:No one with any sense would develop in C++ if they could avoid it

I stand by this. Writing C++ is too slow & should be avoided if possible.

Regarding other businesses which use C++:
Yes you are right, there are many areas where C++ is used. DB’s, Os’s etc. I’d say a large portion of these are due to legacy code & being to expensive to port.

Quote:I'm not going to answer your question if you're going to place arbitrary restrictions on it

It’s not arbitrary. I started this thread about writing games with VC++ 2005.

Quote:"Console developers don't have to write their games in C++. They typically choose to"

I would say the tools they are given are C++ tools.

Quote:PC developers use VC++ quite often in fact, especially those only developing for the PC

I know that, I didn’t say they didn’t.

Quote:VC++ is the IDE, however, which itself has no features related to threading, networking, I/O or garbage collection

VC++ is a package that includes IDE & compiler etc. I talk about them as 1.

Quote:I think you meant C++, in which case you're still incorrect except with respect to file IO. C++ (the current standard) has no concept of a "thread" or "network" or anything related, and certainly has nothing resembling garbage collection.

I know I said “PC developers hardly use VC++ because….” Meaning they don’t use VC++ for those features as it doesn’t have them

Quote:There's a difference between the IDE and language, and you seem to have them mixed up

They come as a package & I will refer to them as so if I chose

Quote:large body of existing code and tools that support them in using that language

Still doesn't make VC++ 2005 efficient for writing code

Quote:tends not to outweigh the disadvantage in cost and time to retrain and port for larger studios that have been around for a while

Still doesn't make VC++ 2005 efficient for writing code

Quote:I almost never do any C++ development any longer

Why not?

Quote:Ego

I don't have an ego. I'm saying that VC++ 2005 IDE for ANSI C++ is slow to code with

Quote:Absolutes are rarely reasonable

I’m pretty sure I’m right in this case though

Reject the basic asumption of civialisation especially the importance of material possessions

Codeka

1,239

February 16, 2010 04:13 PM

Quote:Original post by Cacks
Still doesn't make VC++ 2005 efficient for writing code

So, I think in the end, we can safely say that VS2010 has a number of features and improvements which should make writing C++ code faster for you compared to VS2005.