History as background story... a game (or a film but less so) without a story is like a ship without a swimming pool.
History is massively important in one game: poker. The solution then: to add a poker element to the game and make history very specifically relevant to how various randomly generated alien factions play that subgame.
A pre-combat negotiation phase is what I have in mind. Some aliens might bluff and haggle all day, some might take any aggressive gesture as an excuse to go all in... I mean to attack outright.
The same, having some clue of the technological level of aliens you have not encountered might be better than discovering the same by having your ship sliced by their borg beam.
In other words, what Stroppy Katamari said.
Making History Useful To The Player
I really really want to come up with some way that history can enhance gameplay but I'm having a very hard time. I want it. I want it really lots, but I can't think of much of a use. Knowing why a race of aliens acts a certain way is nice and all but what does it help? A warlike race is a warlike race (or any trait), regardless of why. Your knowledge of their history is not going to help force them into peace.
Maybe to fulfill the old axiom about history repeating itself. It might be useful to see what the game is capable of so that you can plan what sort of actions you might take if you intend on affecting things on such a historic scale. Maybe reading about a hero, politician, or pirate's accomplishments will insprire the player to try the same things. But I don't know if in order to provide that inspiration you would need to develop a history for lots of planets.
Maybe you could use history in generating relationships between races or creating heros and other notable figures. Again, knowing how such things came to be is nice and all but I'm not sure how a player can make use of it.
Unless maybe the reason I want detailed history is the same as why I want beautifull graphics and music. I guess the question is then, how far do you want to get into that one dimension of the game?
Maybe to fulfill the old axiom about history repeating itself. It might be useful to see what the game is capable of so that you can plan what sort of actions you might take if you intend on affecting things on such a historic scale. Maybe reading about a hero, politician, or pirate's accomplishments will insprire the player to try the same things. But I don't know if in order to provide that inspiration you would need to develop a history for lots of planets.
Maybe you could use history in generating relationships between races or creating heros and other notable figures. Again, knowing how such things came to be is nice and all but I'm not sure how a player can make use of it.
Unless maybe the reason I want detailed history is the same as why I want beautifull graphics and music. I guess the question is then, how far do you want to get into that one dimension of the game?
Quote:Original post by Atrix256
I dont remember the details but i read an article a little while ago about a MUD admin who wrote up a paper about the different kind of players of MUDs
some liked to PVE
some liked to PVP
some liked to explore
etc (there were some other types i think)
Anyhow, in your game, I could see history being useful to those who liked to explore.
Imagine if you came to a strange planet and there was something blocking you from getting into some cool looking ancient place.
Like maybe a door to a temple was made out of some indestructible material and there was a combination lock (with strange non-english symbols on it).
Or perhaps there was some seemingly unbeatable guardian of a temple who you couldn't ever destroy in combat, that would always engage you when you got close.
Maybe for these things, if you went and researched the history, or had been paying attention when history was being told to you via storyline, you might have a clue of what to do or at least who to talk to or where to go to research information.
You might find the combination to the lock in some history text
You might find that if you bring a certain item to the unbeatable guardian that he detects that you are friendly and leaves you alone.
These are things that would make history add to the experience of the game without requiring players to deal with it who didn't like doing research etc.
Also, in this sort of situation, the players who knew history and were more of the explorer types would be sought out by other types of players for their knowledge about certain things that might come up in the world.
It could also be a "sub class" that you understood things about the universe's history.
Myst 2 Riven did that.
There was a room with symbols impossible to understand. You had to learn about these symbols to unlock the room. To learn about these symbols, you had to know what they meant... In Myst IV: Revelation, they went a step deeper. To know what the symbols meant, you had to understand the event order in the world etc. As a whole, Myst IV is a good way to teach you how to mettle story and game mechanics. The game is good for what it is, so I recommend playing it if you wish to train yourself: there is no learning without actual effort, you might even dig elements I haven't seen in that game if you play it with this specific focus in mind :)
One option is to make the game about history: Why is the universe the way it is? DNA testing, excavation, local history can all give clues as to when worlds traded and when they warred, when they were settled and by who. Gameplay could focus around gathering evidence and then piecing together consistent stories. The player would be rewarded for correctly describing historic events. I imagine the theme would be rather mysterious: Who could possibly have destroyed this many worlds 5,000 years ago? What became of that technology? Why did the great martian Diaspora occur?
Or if you want a more traditional game, history can be important for generating consistent storylines. There's an iceberg philosophy in writing that says you should only tell the reader a fraction of what you know about the world. Consider Star Wars: the viewer gets the sense fairly quickly that there's this large universe out there, and that they're just viewing a small piece. Galatic war, rebellion, a mystic society that's mostly vanished. Han Solo enters the storyline with a history we don't view firsthand, and that history impacts the part of the story we do see. The player doesn't usually want a history lesson, but if you put little clues about a history they'll be intrigued. You can put those clues in without explicitly pregenerating a historic narrative, but doing so ensures consistency. It gives you more narrative freedom, like being able to present information in reverse chronological order, letting the player see the impact of some event before understanding what that event was.
Or if you want a more traditional game, history can be important for generating consistent storylines. There's an iceberg philosophy in writing that says you should only tell the reader a fraction of what you know about the world. Consider Star Wars: the viewer gets the sense fairly quickly that there's this large universe out there, and that they're just viewing a small piece. Galatic war, rebellion, a mystic society that's mostly vanished. Han Solo enters the storyline with a history we don't view firsthand, and that history impacts the part of the story we do see. The player doesn't usually want a history lesson, but if you put little clues about a history they'll be intrigued. You can put those clues in without explicitly pregenerating a historic narrative, but doing so ensures consistency. It gives you more narrative freedom, like being able to present information in reverse chronological order, letting the player see the impact of some event before understanding what that event was.
You have to remember that history is very important in real life, and still most people ignore it and find it boring. A game, where people go to avoid boring things, is not likely to do much better. It just doesn't seem to be in most people's genes to care about history.
Even if they find it interesting at first glance, it will usually get swept away by immediate concerns, which they will do their best to muddle through without referring to history.
Even if they find it interesting at first glance, it will usually get swept away by immediate concerns, which they will do their best to muddle through without referring to history.
Quote:Original post by Wavinator
History, particularly the kind of made up history found in RPGs, seems to be boring to the majority of players. Is there any way to make it more relevant?
I ask because I'm working on procedurally generating the history for the space game I'm working on. At the moment I'm at the macro level, generating life, evolving it up a tech tree of sorts and trying to get it to interact in interesting ways. Eventually I want this all to generate history and map fragments and set the tone for encounters (ruins, derelicts) in regions of the game.
It seems that there are some things not as worth doing, though. What could it possibly mean to you if some alien race never made it past the industrial age, got bombed by an asteroid or disappeared in a nuclear war? Other than varying the inhabitants of the map (which can be done far easier) what use is history?
The 'history' also flows in different gradients across space. The fall of a civilization effects frontier vs core urban worlds differently (frontier being more rugged/less dependent would survive largely intact while an urban situation would be mass starvation/heavily looted ... etc... The effect of historic changes radiate outward to a varying decreasing effect. Influence fields could be used to smooth the transitions so not to have too disjunct situations in adjacent area of space.
You are doing the procedural to vary the content in logical cohesive ways and supplies the theme/flavor parameters for generation. You will already have the context decided/defines to build the situations so the only further difficulty is 'history' info that isnt too useless -- how it is to ne conveighed to the player.
Posting 'clues' ahead of the player arriving gives the player a chance to prepare with equipment or supplies and how to approach his dealings in that region of space (fall of civilization = roaming pirates/desperate people -- as well as opportunites not available in a locked down controlled area).
Hearing about something interesting far way will guide the player to go to it (or maybe avoid it if it sound bad).
The problem is imparting the info to the player without it always being the same way (some ways should be overtly made clear, others would require some attempt at observation or thinking/piecing info together, and others active seeking of the info (you dont always have the cliche of the guy in the bar who tells you exactly what/where/how the situation is).
A little misinformation (misleading or no longer current or even exagerations) can be thrown in so that the player might get a supprise and for other situations there might be an info blackout (ie- the old 'many have entered, but none have returned...') Multiple different rumors should tip off a player that he needs to seek better info, etc.... Players can learn to judge info quality by its source.
History usually takes a long time (not usually changing much during the players time) so that it can largely be kept static, so you wont have to deal with a more complex dynamic information system. But it would be neat for the player to start hearing feedback to actions(incidents) that he made happen, but it shouldnt be laid on too thick.
Thanks to everyone for the insightful replies!
I'd like to try to widen this a bit:
What About Interactive History?
Would it add any value to watch and possibly interact with the game universe BEFORE you actually play? The idea is that you're basically part observer, part agent, with more of a stake-- if only to see how your meddling turned out.
I'm envisioning a galaxy map that uses icons and particle effects. You'd have fleets warping or jumping about, novas going off and fx denoting the demise or tech advance of a culture. You'd see territory expand, networks of wormholes spring to life and maybe icons denoting unique gear being created, stolen and even fading from the map.
This might be cool in and of itself but what if you could stop history at a point (or even rewind), pick a starting location and start playing from that point on? Or what if you could drop in threats and bonuses, say dropping a nova or "space monster" near a culture and watching them adapt or flee?
Balance and surprise might be problems. To balance things maybe barriers and threats are higher for things that are nearer, or maybe they're nerfed a bit so their stats go down. On surprise there's nothing written that the game would HAVE to play out as the future you saw.
I'd like to try to widen this a bit:
What About Interactive History?
Would it add any value to watch and possibly interact with the game universe BEFORE you actually play? The idea is that you're basically part observer, part agent, with more of a stake-- if only to see how your meddling turned out.
I'm envisioning a galaxy map that uses icons and particle effects. You'd have fleets warping or jumping about, novas going off and fx denoting the demise or tech advance of a culture. You'd see territory expand, networks of wormholes spring to life and maybe icons denoting unique gear being created, stolen and even fading from the map.
This might be cool in and of itself but what if you could stop history at a point (or even rewind), pick a starting location and start playing from that point on? Or what if you could drop in threats and bonuses, say dropping a nova or "space monster" near a culture and watching them adapt or flee?
Balance and surprise might be problems. To balance things maybe barriers and threats are higher for things that are nearer, or maybe they're nerfed a bit so their stats go down. On surprise there's nothing written that the game would HAVE to play out as the future you saw.
I like your latest idea but your wording got me thinking of something else. What if the players comments formed history in some way (if this could be done without too much work)?
Now that sounds like it'd be a kick ass way for history to add gameplay. Let me know when I can order a copy but be sure to give some advanced warning so I can upgrade my machine accordingly first.
It does make me wonder though. If you could rewind history, pop yourself in, and start playing, how would you handle the inevitable situation where a player tries to pop in at a time and place where they were before? When the player tries to cross paths with his old old character, it'd be easy enough to come up with some reason why you can only control 1 character at a time. But what happens when the player starts getting in the old character's way? The issue I'm thinking of isn't so much about if you kill yourself in the past as it is about just having that character react appropriately.
I'm wondering, is the whole thing is a can of worms you want to open? I'm sure it could all be delt with but I can see it expanding development significantly.
It does make me wonder though. If you could rewind history, pop yourself in, and start playing, how would you handle the inevitable situation where a player tries to pop in at a time and place where they were before? When the player tries to cross paths with his old old character, it'd be easy enough to come up with some reason why you can only control 1 character at a time. But what happens when the player starts getting in the old character's way? The issue I'm thinking of isn't so much about if you kill yourself in the past as it is about just having that character react appropriately.
I'm wondering, is the whole thing is a can of worms you want to open? I'm sure it could all be delt with but I can see it expanding development significantly.
Argh! I'm a nerd, I can't help it I have to keep going...
If the ambitions and goals of notable figures in history are tracked as a part of the process of generating a history then it might be appropriate to describe a completed destiny (for lack of a better word) of an old player character using such goals and ambitions. When a player arrives at a time which includes an old player character, the old PC could be driven by the same AI system as all other notable NPCs. Although it would be expected that the AI system should mimic the old PC's actions, that the player took while in control of the character, disturbences caused by any new events may not make this possible. Rather than trying to force events to occur it may be simpler to allow the AI system to make different decisions for the character effictively creating a new destiny for the former PC. And then explain the difference in events with some crazy time travel theory.
I would describe the difference in 'destinies' with a theory that says that if a person is originally traveling on a timeline charted to follow along an x-axis, the act of time travel to the past displaces the direction of travel relative to the original timeline by 0 + x degrees (likely an extremly small fraction) before any additional action after arrival can be taken by the traveler. (This is a personal theory of mine about time travel which is quite possibly crazy but carefully considered. Of course, I have several more.)
Sorry if I've gone a bit off topic.
If the ambitions and goals of notable figures in history are tracked as a part of the process of generating a history then it might be appropriate to describe a completed destiny (for lack of a better word) of an old player character using such goals and ambitions. When a player arrives at a time which includes an old player character, the old PC could be driven by the same AI system as all other notable NPCs. Although it would be expected that the AI system should mimic the old PC's actions, that the player took while in control of the character, disturbences caused by any new events may not make this possible. Rather than trying to force events to occur it may be simpler to allow the AI system to make different decisions for the character effictively creating a new destiny for the former PC. And then explain the difference in events with some crazy time travel theory.
I would describe the difference in 'destinies' with a theory that says that if a person is originally traveling on a timeline charted to follow along an x-axis, the act of time travel to the past displaces the direction of travel relative to the original timeline by 0 + x degrees (likely an extremly small fraction) before any additional action after arrival can be taken by the traveler. (This is a personal theory of mine about time travel which is quite possibly crazy but carefully considered. Of course, I have several more.)
Sorry if I've gone a bit off topic.
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
