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IDamiez

a new way to invision an mmorpg

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hello, visualize something real quick . . . when we imagine the usual mmo addict u invision a fat slob living in his parents house playing something like WoW right? but what if an mmorpg was made on the wii platform with interative gameplay like a swing with the wii mote = a swing in game type thing. i didnt properly think this through but it would make people see diffrntly about mmo's . . . . why? becuase u get exirsize, burn calories, and get fit . . . and addiction would actually be good for your health . . . other aspects of the game? commumication i assum our wondering? well i had anotehr idea where instead of typing everything out you would use a blu tooth headset and whatever youd say would be broadcasted to all those within a small range . . . so to engage someone in converstion youd have to be near them. voice mail would also be a possibility to those far from you. There would also be many ways to grind . . ive always dreamed of a game where the main grind isnt killing monsters all day. how bout a gam where pvp gives you major exp? or having a flight system and winning races for major exp? or a card game system. Mmos of tomorow need variety . . . not just grind grind grind all day . . . the more and more i think about it . . . the more i realize that the possibilities are endless . . . so is this possible? definately . . would you buy it? well i for sure would purchase it. . . . who will make it? if no one steals this idea or thinks of a similar one . . . ill begin development in about 6 years . . . lol . . .

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I've always envisioned an MMO where typing in complete sentences with correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar granted additional experience.

Sarcasm aside, you didn't actually ask anything that wasn't some segue into your own answers. So the following is all unsolicited.

In 6 years there will probably be a different console on the market and you'll hopefully have gained enough education or experience to realize what is feasible with current technology (and what's just a fun "what if" daydream).

Or you'll have moved on to play with a different shiny thing.

Your ideas are all over the board, and any designing like this ("ooh, and we could have flying! OOH, and personally owned boats! WAIT, let's also add magic and the ability to cook your own food by gathering ingredients and using fully realistic kitchen physics! AND...") won't result in anything cohesive... or playable.

Start out with a pencil, some paper, and try and refine down the specific goal you have in mind. If you were only allowed to describe the game in 10 seconds, what would come through as the most important points? (Also known as the "elevator pitch": if you ran into an investor/publisher on the elevator and had until they reached their floor to sell the game idea to them, what would you say?) This is a great technique to use when refining a workable idea out of a brainstorm.

Also, breathe. And seriously: proofread before posting. It instantly raises your perceived IQ.

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Original post by IDamiez
hello, visualize something real quick . . . when we imagine the usual mmo addict u invision a fat slob living in his parents house playing something like WoW right? but what if an mmorpg was made on the wii platform with interative gameplay like a swing with the wii mote = a swing in game type thing. i didnt properly think this through but it would make people see diffrntly about mmo's . . . . why? becuase u get exirsize, burn calories, and get fit . . . and addiction would actually be good for your health . . .

Okay, you're already off to a bad start. Seeing all mmorpg players as fat slobs who live with their parents is looking at the world with a very narrow-minded view. I play mmorpgs and I'm not a fat slob living with my parents, and while I'm sure the person you described exists (I'm sure many of them exist), people who play mmorpgs are as diverse as people who play any other type of game. Young, old, fat, skinny, short, tall, dependent, independent, employed, unemployed, and so on and so forth. Lumping all mmorpg players into one category is not a good way of looking at your playerbase.

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other aspects of the game? commumication i assum our wondering? well i had anotehr idea where instead of typing everything out you would use a blu tooth headset and whatever youd say would be broadcasted to all those within a small range . . . so to engage someone in converstion youd have to be near them. voice mail would also be a possibility to those far from you.

Voice chat communication would bring up a lot of problems.

1. What would you do about people "spamming" voice chat? It's already annoying dealing with people who text spam. It would be 10x as annoying dealing with people who won't shut up. It's not even as simple as an ignore feature because maybe there's just 15 people in one area and they are all talking. It's going to be really hard to listen to everyone all at once. It's much easier to read chat text from many people. It's a common problem even when using a voice chat system like Ventrilo, where people jump in and start talking at the same time, and everything just becomes a jumble of words and background noise.

2. It requires quite a bit more bandwidth to transmit decent audio back and forth between dozens if not hundreds of players simultaneously. Chat text takes up practically no space. Even if you limit ranges then you're pretty much limiting communication with everyone.

Having voice chat be an optional feature wouldn't be so bad though. There are many games that do this already, so it's not really a new idea.

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There would also be many ways to grind . . ive always dreamed of a game where the main grind isnt killing monsters all day. how bout a gam where pvp gives you major exp? or having a flight system and winning races for major exp? or a card game system. Mmos of tomorow need variety . . . not just grind grind grind all day . . .

Many ways to grind? How about no ways? Grinding is unpleasant and it's only added into a game when developers cannot provide enough content to keep players entertained for many hours without forcing players to repeat things a lot. There are a lot of problems when you start granting EXP through pvp, such as players purposely letting their friends kill them for "free" EXP.

Racing events are rarely ever fair because you're involving something where a few milliseconds can determine the winner, and anyone with a slow internet connection or the slightest bit of lag might end up losing.

I agree that most MMOs only focus on one thing and make players repeat it to no end, but more thought needs to go into what exactly the players would be doing. Not to mention, a really great mmorpg would find a way to stop the need to grind in the first place. Coming up with "other ways to grind" is still forcing your players to grind. Now you're just giving them more options. Take away the grind entirely and you might be on to something.

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the more and more i think about it . . . the more i realize that the possibilities are endless . . .

Congratulations, you've just discovered an imagination. =P

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so is this possible? definately . .

Anything is possible. Is it probable? Well that depends on whether or not the motion control couldn't be easily abused so that it's fair for everyone... and whether or not the voice chat can be done with minimal bandwidth use. There are a lot of technical limitations you aren't taking into consideration. As a game designer, it's important to consider your limitations. In fact, without considering the limitations, you're might as well be a kid doodling down ideas during class at school, with no real thought about costs of implementation, restrictions, hardware costs, etc.

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would you buy it? well i for sure would purchase it. . . .
who will make it? if no one steals this idea or thinks of a similar one . . . ill begin development in about 6 years . . . lol . . .

Well obviously you would purchase it... you thought of it! =p

But really nothing you described doesn't already exist on some level. The Wii already has many multiplayer games which require physical movement. They might not be MMO status, but the idea is still there. Voice chat in online games is pretty commonplace, but I don't think I've seen a game that REQUIRES that you use it yet. Nor do I think a game would be very popular if it did.

As for people stealing your ideas... Well that's the first notion you need to leave behind. Ideas are a penny a dozen. Implementing those ideas into something that actually exists... now that is rare.

You sound new to the design/development game, so I hope that you'll take advice from people here who have some experience with it. Stick with your dreams and keep learning and most importantly, push to bring your dream into reality while also being levelheaded and understanding that you will need to do more than just come up with fun ideas while everyone else does the work. (unless you're willing to pay a lot of money)

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The first thing i would like to mention is that . . . this post was entirely intended to just quickly share an idea . . . i wasnt aiming for anyone to take this seriously to the point where correction of my mistakes were provoked. i wasnt focusing on grammar & vocabulary, unfortunately Gamedev lacks a sort of informal chatplace where you can just let your thoughts be known without gramatical judgement.

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Or you'll have moved on to play with a different shiny thing.

this would have been insulting to anyone who is intelligent enough to seek guidience in the process of game development in an online fourm names "GameDev", let alone someone who is probably older than you may assume.

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breathe. And seriously: proofread before posting. It instantly raises your perceived IQ.


. . . . . . . . . . . Most of your post was negatiely targeted at me. If you truly wished to harmlessly aid me in grammar correction you would have left me a message. please think about the impact your nasty comments can have on someone young wishing to share his/her ideas, or possibly someone with a minimal understanding of english who just wishes to share his/her idea before you leave those unnececary comments.

Anyway thanks for the advice although im reciving advice i already know . . .
I wasnt in search of advice on how to convert this idea into a real game.
i was just curious of what people would think of the idea . . . thats all.

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unfortunately Gamedev lacks a sort of informal chatplace where you can just let your thoughts be known without gramatical judgement.

Indeed. That's not the kind of community we have built here. We have an IRC channel (#gamedev on irc.afternet.org), but you'll find we expect a similar level of thought to go into how one presents oneself there as well.

Perhaps you might consider another community if you just want to throw out thoughts and ideas without concern for how you present them.

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this would have been insulting to anyone who is intelligent enough to seek guidience in the process of game development in an online fourm names "GameDev", let alone someone who is probably older than you may assume.

I don't see how. Let's not bring assumptions of age into this, either, okay? You could be making the exact same mistake.

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. . . . . . . . . . . Most of your post was negatiely targeted at me. If you truly wished to harmlessly aid me in grammar correction you would have left me a message. please think about the impact your nasty comments can have on someone young wishing to share his/her ideas, or possibly someone with a minimal understanding of english who just wishes to share his/her idea before you leave those unnececary comments.

I don't think there was anything overly negative posted here. I think you're overreacting. This is a discussion forum where we expect some thought to go into the things presented, and if you want to be taken seriously, that's what you need to know. And now you do. If you are going to be this offended over gentle criticism of your post and presentation then you probably really do want to avoid posting such "brain dumps" altogether, or at least spend some time cleaning them up first.

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Original post by IDamiez
The first thing i would like to mention is that . . . this post was entirely intended to just quickly share an idea . . .


This didn't work. Your idea might actually be good but it's impossible to tell when, at first blush, you're asking people to wade through ellipses and chat message shorthand that makes your post look infantile. It looks really bad and, as you've found out so far, people will judge you in a forum based on your ability to communicate.

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i wasnt aiming for anyone to take this seriously


Okay then it's probably best to state this upfront. If you don't want to be lumped in with the zillions of folks who come here seriously believing they're going to create the next WOW-killer before they graduate from high school, you should set yourself apart (and check that FAQ). Say something like, "Hey, guys, this is totally theoretical" so that you're not automatically stereotyped.

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i wasnt focusing on grammar & vocabulary, unfortunately Gamedev lacks a sort of informal chatplace where you can just let your thoughts be known without gramatical judgement.


Maybe look at this as a chance to improve your skills. None of us know you, so the only way we can judge what you have to say is by how you say it. What's wrong with your idea? What barriers does it face to gaining a broader acceptance? What would improve it, and how would this improvement work in balance with the way MMOs are played?





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breathe. And seriously: proofread before posting. It instantly raises your perceived IQ.


. . . . . . . . . . . Most of your post was negatiely targeted at me. If you truly wished to harmlessly aid me in grammar correction you would have left me a message. please think about the impact your nasty comments can have on someone young wishing to share his/her ideas, or possibly someone with a minimal understanding of english who just wishes to share his/her idea before you leave those unnececary comments.


Two things:

1) Every time you start a post you've got spell check. I use it. Doesn't mean I don't screw up still, but ignoring the squiggly lines comes across as sloppy (and for most folks is often irritating to read).

2) You can make the feedback you got mean that the community is mean or bad or whatever. But the posts you don't like just did you a favor. If you're doing something that doesn't work, if you're coming across as someone you're not, wouldn't you want to correct it?

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Anyway thanks for the advice although im reciving advice i already know . . .
I wasnt in search of advice on how to convert this idea into a real game.
i was just curious of what people would think of the idea . . . thats all.


As to that I'd recommend dropping the offensive "fat slob" stereotype. I know all sorts of folks who play WoW and they come in a range of body types. As to the core of your idea: It seems at odds with the business model of the MMO. Don't you want people to play as long as possible? Wouldn't this be at odds with physical activity that would correspond to real motion?

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Original post by jpetrie
If you are going to be this offended over gentle criticism of your post and presentation then you probably really do want to avoid posting such "brain dumps" altogether, or at least spend some time cleaning them up first.


JPetrie, thank you for reiterating what I was colorfully targeting.

IDamiez, I apologize that you were so offended by my feedback. Might I suggest slightly thicker skin and an openness to disagreeing viewpoints? If this tore you up, I fear what will happen when you put out your first game--born of your innermost creative energies and passions--and a few people tear it up because they just didn't like the genre.

Yes, the shiny things comment was pointed sarcasm, but follow me here:

I'm not making assumptions out of the gate (and for the record, I always check the "Location" field to see if the poster is blatantly more comfortable in another language, but "SilverSpring" is nice and ambiguously English), I'm working with what you spent the time to put together. If the post is a jumbled mess that can't coherently ask for feedback (which you didn't, we're given "visualize this:" and a series of rhetorical questions), then that influences my perceptions. If the only thing I have to go by is a post lacking focus and direction, but over-excitedly dumping a brainstorm of ideas that really do exude the whole "feature-creep" concept that many games in development have to work to avoid, that paints a picture of an excited child/young teenager sitting around with some friends dreaming up the mash-up of their 5 favorite video games.

Which is why I suggested the boil-down of concepts. The suggestion of cleaning up your posts is just for your own darn good. This isn't cell phone text or IM, it's a forum full of hobbyists and professionals who are actually trying to communicate. If you want your ideas to be taken seriously for consideration and feedback, at least try to look like you put your own effort in.

Again, I am genuinely sorry that you took quite so much offense, but I certainly don't mind being that dissenting voice that helped you expand your viewpoint and toughen up a little.

[Edited by - BCullis on February 23, 2010 5:49:56 PM]

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Apology accepted BCullis. I must admit i was feeling a bit lazy when composing this post. Just wanted to share the idea, wasn't aiming to "present" it to the Game Dev Community. Now I am aware of how serious this community is (intended as a positive statement). Ill return with a serious post. Moderators may lock or delete this post if they wish. I'm unaware of how to delete it on my own ... if its even possible that is . . .

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Original post by BCullis
IDamiez, I apologize that you were so offended by my feedback.

Ah, the old apology that isn't really an apology. :p You're sorry that they took offense to what you said but not sorry for saying it. lol, I don't know why I felt this needed to be commented on, but I always find it funny when people word apologies like this so as to not actually apologize for their actions, but apologize for other people's reaction.

If anything, it's even more of an insult to the person's intelligence. :P

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Konidias

While you're technically correct, I'm guessing he meant "I'm sorry that you were so offended" which is perfectly valid (and a mixup you did in your post too). I can be genuinely sorry about someone being offended by something I said but I might still feel it had to be said. So I don't feel regret. So I don't apologize in that case.

More on topic, it's a nice idea in a "world peace" sort of way. Everybody has it, nobody knows how to get there.

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