Sign in to follow this  
Waaayoff

Polygon count in modern games?

Recommended Posts

Waaayoff    952
I realize that you can't give me a precise number but a range on average would be nice. I would like to know the ranges for these kind of games: FPS - Such as Call of duty 6 RTS - Such as Age of Empires As for MMORPGs, how many polygons if the game focuses on graphics such as Age of Conan, and if it focuses on gameplay, such as Darkfall which promises that it can handle battles with 200+ players Thanks :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daaark    3553
There isn't really an answer to this question.

Quote:
As for MMORPGs, how many polygons if the game focuses on graphics such as Age of Conan, and if it focuses on gameplay, such as Darkfall which promises that it can handle battles with 200+ players
These aren't mutually exclusives. There are tons of techniques that can be used.

It depends on all kinds of variables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rubicondev    296
On even roughly modern hardware, the number of draw calls is massively more important than the number of vertices. In fact this isn't scaling with time at all - you shouldn't be drawing more than several hundred batches today and that's the same as it was 5 years ago. Which explains the below - all other limits have moved on a long way...

You can render a single model with literally millions of vertices at silly frame rates. If you want to render 1000 of them, the difference between a 1000x models with 1000 verts and 1000x models with 100,000 verts won't be as much as you might expect.

Given there are other limits, the number of vertices you use in practice is unlimited and has been the case for some time. You will always hit something else as a bottleneck before this unless you're doing something truly bizarre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palidine    1315
Yeah # of draw calls is the most important generally
After that it's typically fillrate (the amount of overdraw you have)
Polygon count isn't really generally an issue anymore up to a certain point

Otherwise, it's so entirely dependent on the rest of your engine that it's not really a generalizable metric anymore.

-me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimonForsman    7642
Quote:
Original post by Palidine
Yeah # of draw calls is the most important generally
After that it's typically fillrate (the amount of overdraw you have)
Polygon count isn't really generally an issue anymore up to a certain point

Otherwise, it's so entirely dependent on the rest of your engine that it's not really a generalizable metric anymore.

-me


a higher polygon count can quite quickly become an issue if you do have non-trivial vertexshaders though (which quite alot of games do these days).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palidine    1315
Quote:
Original post by SimonForsman
a higher polygon count can quite quickly become an issue if you do have non-trivial vertexshaders though (which quite alot of games do these days).


For sure. I claim immunity under my "it's so entirely dependent on the rest of your engine" clause though [smile]

-me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Atrix256    539
For the record, a lot of MMO's keep their graphics really simple and not CPU or GPU demanding so that they have access to more potential players.

If someone made an MMO where you had to have the very top of the line computer to play it, they wouldn't be making much money because nobody would be able to play it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frob    44908
A good modeler can get complex models down to a few hundred polygons, covering the details with a good texture. That's generally not a problem.

When it comes to raw polygons, cards from five years ago could easily handle 5 million polygons per frame @60Hz if they are batched up properly. There were some tech demos with extremely dense models using per-pixel color rather than textures. You are likely to hit other bottlenecks long before you hit raw polygon limits. (Consider that a 1280x1024 screen has 1.3M pixels, so that's five polygons per pixel!)

Bigger problems are fill rate and overdraw, shader complexity, bus transfer rates with too many batches or too many transmitted items, etc. Less likely is being CPU-bound. The book GPU Gems has an article on finding those problems, which NVidia made available to the public. It even includes a flowchart of how to identify the issue. Yay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daaark    3553
frob, a few hundred doesn't really cut it for humanoid models. You need a few thousand for everything to work well, especially in certain areas that deform, you need a few edge loops to get it to work right. It's hard to get them under 1.5k when doing retopology on a bigger mesh.

Also not mentioned in this thread are impostor billboards, LOD meshes, using less complex shaders on distant objects, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
InvalidPointer    1842
Quote:
Original post by Waaayoff
I realize that you can't give me a precise number but a range on average would be nice.

I would like to know the ranges for these kind of games:

FPS - Such as Call of duty 6
RTS - Such as Age of Empires

As for MMORPGs, how many polygons if the game focuses on graphics such as Age of Conan, and if it focuses on gameplay, such as Darkfall which promises that it can handle battles with 200+ players

Thanks :)

I'd like to point out that Age of Empires never used polygons at all. It's all blitting/sprites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daaark    3553
Quote:
Original post by PrestoChung
eh the old blocky look is good imo:) state of the art graphics have entered an 'uncanny valley' of sorts.
The two have little to do with each other.

A properly done model has to have a proper edge flow so it bends and deforms properly. It has nothing to do with attempted realism. A cartoon style model needs the same considerations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LordSputnik    132
Quote:
Original post by InvalidPointer
Quote:
Original post by Waaayoff
I realize that you can't give me a precise number but a range on average would be nice.

I would like to know the ranges for these kind of games:

FPS - Such as Call of duty 6
RTS - Such as Age of Empires

As for MMORPGs, how many polygons if the game focuses on graphics such as Age of Conan, and if it focuses on gameplay, such as Darkfall which promises that it can handle battles with 200+ players

Thanks :)

I'd like to point out that Age of Empires never used polygons at all. It's all blitting/sprites.


I think he's referring to Age of Empires 3, since CoD 6 is a recent game. If that's the case, the game does have polygons, and there's an option to switch between low poly and high poly models.

As for polygon count, I'd expect that both CoD6 and AoE have less than a million polygons on screen at any time.

In CoD, you have the player model about 4 ally models, and up to about 15 enemies, each of which with ~20K polys. With them alone, that's 400K polys. Then you have buildings, scenery and, which probably aren't as detailed as the players - so they'll probably take up around 200K polys. Even with another 100K for weaponry models and vehicles, that's still only 700K, and then on top of that there's scene management, which reduces the visible poly count.

For Age of Empires III, battles usually take place with up to 200 units visible on the screen. We'll say each of these units has about 500 polys, since they're very small when viewed by the player. That's 100K on units. then you have the terrain, which is quite detailed in AoE 3, but still likely under 10K polys visible. Buildings and other static meshes are likely another 10K at any one time. So that's only 120K by my estimate.

As for the two MMOs, I've never played them, so I can't really say :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
InvalidPointer    1842
Oh, derp, you're right. Apparently I've expunged most memories of AoE III (and AoM, now that I think about it) from my brain. AoE II spoiled me so much!

I think one of the Relic technical guys stops by on GDNet every so often if you want to ask about model info for Dawn of War or Company of Heroes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this