I saw that you are from Chile, i understand your problem with the price, so if you want the software, you can get it for 5 EUR if you want ;)

I am also skeptic about the usefulness of your library.

Quote:Original post by Geri
FIRST CASE: Most of end-users are not informaticans, and cant install device drivers.

People who use 3d application and play games have also drivers installed, it is unlikely that my game is the only application on someones PC that requires hardware accelerations. There are exceptions but I don't think that "most" users will have no proper drivers installed. Can you reference any statistic to verify your claim?
I think if the user can install my application, he can install drivers too. It is the same procedure.

Quote:Original post by Geri
SECOND CASE: Some end users has very low-end and old VGA card (old integrated intel, Neomagic, old SiS, 3dlabs or S3 vga-s), and they does not even support OpenGL, or they are using newer operating system that does not contains OpenGL acceleration to it anymore. Probably the power of these systems are enough to your game to run.

When we use OpenGL in our software we want hardware acceleration. If we could live without or if we were developing for very low end hardware we would use other API. There are also high level 2D APIs available that have software and hardware accelerated back-ends (QT, Cairo).
When using your library one has to use GL 1.3, but then what about all the users who have 'gaming cards' and propers drivers installed?

If the proper drivers are installed, TitaniumGL is like a glass, it would not ruin the qualify of the vga-driver.

(installing a driver and an application is does not the same procedure. If he/she installs your game, she just place dvdrom in, then press next - next - finish probably. to install a driver, need to know the graphics card, need to know where he/she can found the drivers. Its like charging the accumulator in your car. You can drive it does not means that you can charge its accumulator too. If your application is MEANT only for hardcore gamers, your community will of course know, how to install a vga driver, otherwise, its not so sure. I am even sucked with some stuffs becouse some end users never seen .rar files, and they wasnt able to google it... ;))

Quote:Original post by Geri
If the proper drivers are installed, TitaniumGL is like a glass, it would not ruin the qualify of the vga-driver.

This is not what I meant, I mean we develop with a minimum specification in mind, if the minimum is Netbook, we have no reason to use OpenGL at all. If it is an average gaming PC, we would target OpenGL 2 at least (1.3 is very very old) and use shaders but then the code becomes in compatible with your library.
There is no scenario where your library is useful as fall-back.

You should really show us statistics and tell us in numbers how much bigger our target group will be if we use your library.

For example
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
shows that 95% of the users have DX9 cards (~OGL 2).
While your library is cheap, it restricts one to GL 1.3 and it is a potential source of bugs. One would need to debug not only on different hardware but also using your library.

Quote:Original post by Geri
we would target OpenGL 2 at least

Who want to create a shader based AAA game with very much money, should be able to get time and write a d3d rendering core to it anyways. But well, as i see it (i tested a bounch of shareware games of nowdays on the internet), some of them was only used opengl 1.1, most of them only needed multitexture and vbo as extension. I was found only a few that requied 2.0 features to run, like 1 from 10. It seems the most of succesfull game-developers just want to create games, not shader effects, and i want to help them.


About the statistics: i don't has any other statistics, except that two on my webpage. About market share statistics, i dont have current values, but as you can see, most of PC-s are comes with preinstalled windows. Most of windows drivers has no built-in opengl acceleration. Only the 4-5% of the peoples are informatics and/or gamers - others will be never in they life will change they vga driver. This reason is existed even before windows xp: Quake2 also has built in d3d drivers, and some versions of Quake3 demo can also fallback to d3d rendering (quake3 demo even uses a compiled-in opengl to d3d wrapper in this situations) so it wasnt me to first come up with this idea. It was Carmack :D

Quote:Original post by Geri

Quote:Original post by Geri
we would target OpenGL 2 at least

Who want to create a shader based AAA game with very much money, should be able to get time and write a d3d rendering core to it anyways. But well, as i see it (i tested a bounch of shareware games of nowdays on the internet), some of them was only used opengl 1.1, most of them only needed multitexture and vbo as extension. I was found only a few that requied 2.0 features to run, like 1 from 10. It seems the most of succesfull game-developers just want to create games, not shader effects, and i want to help them.

That's wrong. Creating games includes creating shaders to do some effects. But anyways, GL is moving away from fixed function in favour to shaders. See OpenGL 3 for that.

Consider, if i were to develop a game, i wouldn't like to be constrained by some random library.

HuntsMan:

If you call my library random wich is working and has tryable version, then i call you as a ,,random people'' who are not a code writer (you even called yourself as ,,if i were develop a game'')

Kambiz, HuntsMan:

http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=opengl+game&search=Search

Here, some OpenGL games. I just looked the first ~100 of them. I just typed opengl and game keyword. I looked the screenshots randomly there, i checked source codes also, and i saw mostly only fixed function, and a few that requied shaders. Of course this not means that my wrapper will be compatible with them for first try! This is just for correcting the misinformations that you both posted.

The reality is different than imagination - therefore i ask you two to please stop placing disinformations to my topic, becouse it can affray some developers who are want to buy.

Please ask only technically things and not philisophically - i suggest to create a new topic for you if you both want to just wondering about the shader usage in today's video games.

(this NOT means that i am now angry at you, dudes!)



SimonForsman: Thank you for the information. As some bugreports what i recived, most computers even on win7 was returned ,,generic gdi'' ogl 1.1 software renderer with built-in drivers for some reason (d3d was worked fine), so there also can be this to be a problem. And i hope this will be the same in win8 too :3

PS: oh, rating thumbdown to a person who just have better arguments than you isnt a constructive behavior, and undeserving on a civilisated forum.